Re:World Energy Hits a Turning Point: Solar That's Cheaper T...
by mabbo on Friday December 16, 2016 @06:40AM
(#13192573)
But it costs far more than just the ballast. The rails, the car, the huge system for pulling and releasing the cars, the dozens of km of land needed to have a train car be elevated by any significant amount.
Lithium systems are going to wind up being cheaper overall because of all of those costs, plus operating costs.
Re:World Energy Hits a Turning Point: Solar That's Cheaper T...
by evgen on Friday December 16, 2016 @10:23AM
(#13193829)
We already know how to cheaply and efficiently build rail, rail cars, huge systems for pulling and releasing the cars (they are called engines and overhead electrification :) and in fact you can pick up a lot of the materials used for less than half the cost of new. Dozens of km of land are damn near free in places in the southwest US where you can also dump lots of solar panels. Lithium may eventually be cheaper, but not within the next decade it won't.
Ballast is > 100x cheaper than powerwalls by the kWh in your equation[1]. 10 tons of rock just 5 m^3, you can put hundreds or thousands of this size of rock in a train[2]. You load/unload ballast instead of having all of it statically bolted onto rails and cars, so you get by with 1/50..1/100 carrying capacity[3] per trip vs total ballast amount.
The amount of raw materials (lithium mining and refining etc) required by the powerwalls is probably much higher too - good lithium deposits have ~ 1/100 of lithium content and turning ore into batteries is a heavy process consuming a lot of water, electricity, fossil fuels (ore transport/mining) etc. Not to mention limited battery service life.
[1] 2x powerwalls = $16000, even building material grade gravel is < $300 per 10 tons (50x cheaper) but here you could use sand or something from the site.
[2] big ore transport trains carry 10000-40000 ton loads, so 1000-4000 of our 10t rocks per train. You would probably use a smaller train for energy storage purpouse since the distance is small and you can have quick load/unload turnarounds
[3] if aiming for 1-day charge capacity, you can fit 100 15-min round-trips in 24 hours, or 50 30-min round trips