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Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @04:53PM (#13171462)
I can't speak for the other guys above, but I must have missed something. I am baffled why this particular set of wireless headphones has received as much press as it has. It seems so overblown that I have to wonder if people with iPhone 7s have actually been refusing to use existing wireless headphones because they are actually waiting for these.

I've had a set of $25 Motorola wireless (Bluetooth) headphones that I use on my daily walking commute to and from work for many years. They work and sound great. They double as a wireless microphone and playback controls. I charge them every day via a USB cable. Woohoo.

I can't see anything specs-wise with the Apple headphones that is interesting. Auto-pause? Okay, cool, but I can press the pause button on my Bluetooth headphones from 2010. Switching between devices? I can enable or disable Bluetooth on my devices, I guess, if I had wanted to use the headphones with more than my phone (though I do not want that).

These new features seem incremental at best. The clamor for these—and the fact that their availability is a high-ranking news item on HN—seems to suggest I am missing something very fundamental. And yet, it feels that I am not. These are wireless headphones with a couple incremental features and an Apple logo.

Re:AirPods are now available by MBCook on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:28PM (#13171785)
> I can't speak for the other guys above, but I must have missed something. I am baffled why this particular set of wireless headphones has received as much press as it has.

They're tiny, they pair to multiple devices trivially, and are well designed. They're one of the big reasons Apple is supposed to have removed the headphone jack off the iPhone 7. "You don't need it, let us show you why" kind of thing.

The other reason is that this is releasing MONTHS LATE. It was supposed to be released at the end of October, now it's coming out end of December. That's HUGE.

When was the last time Apple screwed up the launch of something big like this? The biggest one people can recall is the white iPhone 4 which basically released 9 months late. At that point most people just waited the extra 4-5 months for the iPhone 4s.

Ignoring that they're neat little headphones, this is big news today because APPLE SHIPPED LATE. That just doesn't happen. Maybe quantities are low (Apple watch), but not a flat out delay on a major product after announcing a release date.

Re:AirPods are now available by FireBeyond on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @06:15PM (#13172200)
Eh, they'll pair trivially to other Apple devices (which ... NFC assisted pairing is not new).

It's months late, it's still not here yet, AND there's a "big" warning on the page that even when it is here it will only be in limited quantities and that prospective buyers are "advised" to check online for stocking levels... very un-Apple.

Re:AirPods are now available by cocktailpeanuts on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:05PM (#13171558)
Looking at the list of specs you mentioned, yes, you missed something. There's another guy right above talking about the non-music related features, take a look.
Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:23PM (#13171724)
The other two from that message that I didn't mention were auto-mono and a carrying case. Are those the other features you're referring to?

Auto-mono: I guess I see some people listening in only one ear sometimes, but that's not my way of listening to music or podcasts. The cheap Motorola headphones I use are traditional "headphones" and not earbuds. I prefer headphones over earbuds. But even if I used earbuds, I'm not interested in single-ear listening.

Carrying case: This is a big deal? On my walks, I "carry" my headphones on my ears. When I get home, I charge via a USB cable.

Whatever; I suppose I don't begrudge anyone for being excited by Apple headphones. I just find the hype level amusing and silly.

Re:AirPods are now available by j_jochem on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:36PM (#13171850)
From my experience, Bluetooth audio's sound quality is abysmal. I figure that's why an alternative system is getting so much hype.
Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @06:00PM (#13172072)
I would agree that old Bluetooth devices (especially those from around 2005 or earlier) often sounded poor. But modern Bluetooth devices (say 2009 onward) have generally sounded fine/great. I would go so far as to say that if you're listening to MP3s and not FLAC, then Bluetooth isn't your biggest signal loss.
Re:AirPods are now available by prutschman on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @07:49PM (#13172837)
I haven't done work in the Bluetooth space for years now, but a big problem with audio streaming in the Bluetooth 1/2 days was that devices wouldn't reliably adjust their page and inquiry scan intervals (time the radio spends listening for connections and answering device discovery requests, rather than sending data).

The effective remaining bandwidth fell far short of what the default Bluetooth codec, SBC, required. SBC was already pretty low end, more like MPEG Layer-1 audio. Even so, for point to point streaming if the devices cooperated well there was enough bandwidth for fairly good audio quality. It's just that it was a crapshoot what any pair of devices would get you.

The other big issue is that there wasn't, at least at the time, any standardized method for synchronizing the audio sampling rates of the source and sink. This could have been achieved by slaving the audio PLL to the connection master's frequency hopping clock, which the slave has to follow to even maintain a connection, but there wasn't any requirement to do so. Plus it'd be a massive layer violation in the Bluetooth stack. We basically ran a software PLL on the sink side to try to match what the source was giving us, but packet retransmissions due to loss could gum up the timing. You could get a pitch-bending effect as a connection was starting up, or had just suffered a lot of loss.

I imagine they've sorted most of that out by now.

Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @08:39PM (#13173091)
> I imagine they've sorted most of that out by now.

I think they have. Giving some leeway to my bluetooth Motorola headphones since they are super-aural, to my ears—and I feel I am fairly picky—they are not significantly worse than my circumaural Sennheiser HD 380 pros on my workstation. I suspect the principal reason I feel my circumaural headphones sound a bit better is simply that they are circumaural.

Re:AirPods are now available by erikpukinskis on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @06:18PM (#13172215)
Properly encoded MP3s are sonically indistinguishable in blind tests from FLAC, so I'm not sure what you're referencing.
Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @06:39PM (#13172385)
That's actually my point.

I believe modern Bluetooth headphones are indistinguishable from equivalent non-Bluetooth headphones. If you can tell whether headphones are Bluetooth or not—the other components being equal—then you have particularly acute hearing. And if that's you, then you are probably a FLAC aficionado.

For what it's worth, I listen to MP3s on Bluetooth headphones and they sound great.

(Though to be clear, I've not actually researched the bit rate of Bluetooth, though I suspect it's high enough for 44 KHz stereo. To my ears, Bluetooth is indistinguishable from an analog 3.5mm connection.)

Re:AirPods are now available by btym on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @07:58PM (#13172884)
The quality has nothing to do with Bluetooth, it has everything to do with the digital-to-analog converter. A $25 headset is going to have the cheapest chip the manufacturer could find. Non-Bluetooth headsets don't process digital signals and don't have to do this conversion, it's up to the device you're listening on.
Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @08:42PM (#13173108)
Okay.

Again, that's my point. Bluetooth has a undeserved/outdated bad reputation for adversely affecting audio. I contend that, all else being equal, I could not distinguish a modern Bluetooth wireless headphone from a wired headphone.

Yes, as you point out, they also need a DAC. So I will clarify my contention: all else being equal, I could not distinguish a Bluetooth wireless headphone from a wired USB headphone that uses the same DAC.

Re:AirPods are now available by archagon on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @07:54PM (#13172859)
It's not all about the codecs. On my Sony MDR-1RBTs — which are admittedly a few years old at this point — you can hear the radio buzzing when there's nothing playing. I don't know if it's possible to design a pristine, noiseless set of Bluetooth headphones when there's just so little room in the earcups.
Re:AirPods are now available by theshrike79 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @05:51AM (#13175089)
When did you have your experience? 2010?

Just go grab a pair of BT headphones with aptX support and you should be fine. Unless you are a tube amp and $1.5k headphone kind of person - then you most definitely aren't in the target segment.

Re:AirPods are now available by j2bax on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:10PM (#13171605)
Can you provide a link to your headphones so I can see if they are something I'd be at all interested in?
Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:25PM (#13171744)
Motorola S305: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BH3I9U

They're from ~2009 or thereabouts. Traditional headphone form factor. Works great for my use case (pedestrian commutes to and from the office).

Re:AirPods are now available by j2bax on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:30PM (#13171797)
I had a pair of wired Sony's wayyyyy back in the day in this wrap around ear/neck band form factor that I really loved when I was a kid. Lately though, I find anything that covers my ear too warm and uncomfortable. This is why I'm excited about the AirPods. I wouldn't really classify these Motorola's as truly wireless because of the connecting band.
Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:55PM (#13172024)
That's cool with me. A sense I have picked up from your reply and another message in this thread is that Apple is attempting to evolve the definition of "wireless headphone" to require no bridge between the two ears. I think that is a vocabulary change that is causing a lot of us to scratch our heads in confusion. Conventionally, "wireless headphone" has meant no wire to the device—no headphone cable and no 3.5mm connector. And by that definition, wireless headphones are old and boring.

That said, I'm not a fan of earbuds, wired or otherwise. So whether removing the bridge wire is a revolution is lost on me since I'm not interested either way.

Re:AirPods are now available by j2bax on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @06:03PM (#13172096)
Yeah... My bad, agree on the terminology. I think a more appropriate way to refer to them would be 'wireless earbuds'. In that case, I would say anything connecting them would be cheating and taking away from the truly amazing feeling of having audio delivered to your ears with no connecting wires to get caught on things, pull, vibrate when turning your head etc etc.
Re:AirPods are now available by Spooky23 on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:19PM (#13171692)
You can't just go out and get a $25 Bluetooth headphone and expect a consistent result.

The whole point of the brand is that you're getting a quality, consistent product.

Re:AirPods are now available by bhauer on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @06:10PM (#13172148)
I could buy a dozen of the Motorola wireless headphones I use and I expect the results would be consistently satisfying. In fact, a couple years back I did buy two spare pairs that are new in box in case I ever lose my current pair. At $25 a pop, I figured why not have some insurance.

But I understand you. If you've not previously used wireless headphones and you're satisfied with Apple quality, this new offering is a known quantity. I'm still not really feeling the innovation. Except of course, as someone pointed out, this is a subtle redefinition of "wireless" to mean not just removing the wire to the device, but also any bridge between the two ears. For me, that bridge isn't something I care to remove. But okay, that's cool.

Re:AirPods are now available by Kalium on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @05:05PM (#13171556)
It's Apple. Pretty much anything and everything Apple does right now gets lots of press, much of it of the fawning variety. Apple has a strong brand affinity, so people will shower love on anything Apple-related.