If mood-setting music is unacceptable emotional manipulation, we'd better all stop interacting with one another to avoid the great crimes we're all (apparently) constantly committing, because that's about as benign as it gets.

Not really.

There's nothing wrong with sharing music with others, what matters is the intent. Sharing music to enjoy together, great. Sharing music you may not enjoy just to get your rocks off, not exactly the best thing in the world.

I don't know what social interaction generally, and especially relations between the sexes, would look like absent anything that's at least as "manipulative" as mood music, of all things. It'd be some extreme sci-fi material, probably considered highly dystopic by most exposed to it.

You don't get it. There's nothing wrong with mood music. It's about the reason you put it on.

Anytime a woman puts makeup on her face, or a man takes a date to a nice restaurant - isn't this manipulation of the same type?

Only if the enjoyment is one-sided.

> Is encouraging emotional manipulation really what we want for the younger generations?

You are fully correct. We don't want that.

But, then, is there an alternative? My first girlfriend, she was 12 and I, 14, I regarded as an angel. She was and remains the prettiest human female I ever saw, in person or otherwise. She was burned into my brain: For the rest of my life I will no more be able to forget her than I will be able to forget my own name.

My goal with her was for us to be early teen boyfriend-girlfriend, with some protection against being lonely, some additional affection and compassion, one more person who really cared about us, some romance, security of knowing that our relationship was going to continue, hold hands, hug, and kiss, with nothing wrong and nothing dangerous.

I never tried to manipulate her emotionally, but there were a few times when she got emotional anyway; those times, I declined to take advantage of her; i guessed that a day later she or her mother would be angry. No way did I want her hurt, in any way, from any source, for any reason, at any time, and I was ready to risk my life to protect her from being hurt.

So, in reality, what I actually did was what you want teen boys to do.

My remark, the one you didn't like, was partly a joke, but there is a germ of inconvenient truth there -- it can appear that too often there is such manipulation, taking advantage, or overpowering emotions or nothing at all. Or, maybe it's as in the Strauss music or too often just doesn't happen.

Maybe the larger lesson to teen boys is, really love the girl, no way hurt her, seek to protect and care for her, but realize what an expert once told me, "Of COURSE, women are MUCH more emotional than men. That is the cause of all the problems." So, net, maybe, the boy should try to let her be as emotional as she wants but stay rational and prudent himself and do his best to let her have, help her have her emotions with full safety.

Usually it appears that not many people in our society are quite as sensitive to protecting girls, emotionally or even physically, as you are, or I was with that girl I loved, but I can partly agree with your point.

But I will say, there is evidence that some girls very much seek some of various possible forms of emotional experiences and will resent a boy who does not so contribute and respect a boy who does.

Ah, someday I'll write a book, Girls 101 for Dummies -- Boys.

The Strauss music was about all of life, and I was just mentioning the part where the two fell in love! I was mentioning the Strauss music as a grand example of formula fiction, and that is one of the pillars of the news business which the OP was talking about.

After being married over 20 years, which I still find shocking that anyone has put up with me for so long, I find that "to let her be as emotional as she wants but stay rational and prudent" frequently backfires because she wants emotional _involvement_ and support. Being rational doesn't meet her needs, even though as a man, a geek HFA man at that, I'd rather stay in the safe, predictable, rational realm. Staying married and supporting my wife is more important to me than my comfort zone, just like apologizing means you value the other person more than your own ego.