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Re:Intel x86 documentation has more pages than the 6502 has ... by nine_k on Thursday December 08, 2016 @01:07AM (#13128727)
The catch is in the economy of scale. You can't make a Power8 cost comparably to an i7 unless you also produce it in huge numbers.

ARM chips are cheap not (only) because the R&D is excessively cheap but because the chips are produced in hundreds of millions. Were it not for the explosion of mobile phones, they'd stay in the "nice but expensive for the performance" niche.

Re:Intel x86 documentation has more pages than the 6502 has ... by Someone on Thursday December 08, 2016 @03:45AM (#13129175)
Hundreds of millions is peanuts for ARM. https://www.arm.com claims "ARM’s partners shipped 14.9 billion ARM-based chips in 2015."

That's about two CPUs for everyone on earth and likely two more this year.

Re:Intel x86 documentation has more pages than the 6502 has ... by vidarh on Thursday December 08, 2016 @04:24AM (#13129298)
People don't realise how many things have CPUs these days. PPC (not POWER) and MIPS are also still within the same magnitude as x86 chips (hundreds of millions/year) - they both used to be selling more than x86 because they were more widespread in embedded niches (networking, automotive, set-top boxes), but I don't know whether or not that's still true or not.

It's not economies of scale that gives Intel its sustained advantage as much as it is huge margins that allow them to continue re-investing in their fabrication process advantage, which again protects their margins by keeping them on top in the only segments of the CPU market that are both high price, high margin (at east for the top SKUs) and high unit.

Re:Intel x86 documentation has more pages than the 6502 has ... by Taek on Thursday December 08, 2016 @02:05AM (#13128885)
Economies of scale are governed by how difficult it is to optimize something, and how accessible the research is.

A huge part of the cost of a chip is the design. You can get custom fab jobs for under $10,000. But if the design requires you to implement hundreds of op codes, the chip will be nowhere near that cheap.

With simpler specs, a lot of this design cost is reduced. You may not be able to get 11nm chips, but you don't need that to be competitive. You just need to be close enough that your performance hit is not a deal breaker, at a price that's not a deal breaker.

Re:Intel x86 documentation has more pages than the 6502 has ... by qb45 on Thursday December 08, 2016 @04:16AM (#13129276)
> Were it not for the explosion of mobile phones, they'd stay in the "nice but expensive for the performance" niche.

s/smartphones/smarteverything/

Reportedly only 1.5B phones have been sold in 2015, compared to 15B of ARM cores.

There is apparently a huge market of small cheap ARM microcontrollers, to the point that I heard they are sometimes getting cheaper than simple 8bit micros.