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Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by nurettin on Friday November 25, 2016 @10:46AM (#13037470)
It may not be smart, but it definitely is not stupid as you might have insinuated.

Individuals deciding to exit because they disagree with company policy (editing content and apologizing) is one thing, forcing others, who don't care about stupid internet drama and conspiracy theories, to do the same is entirely something else. (that something else is borderline despotic)

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by problems on Friday November 25, 2016 @10:50AM (#13037502)
Again "stupid internet drama and conspiracy theories" this is not.

An admin abused their power. It's ripe for abuse and they've proven they're willing to abuse it and not mature enough to treat that power respectfully. I have a hard time respecting a company with someone like that as CEO. No conspiracy, no politics, just what happened.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by blitzd on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:14AM (#13037672)
I would argue that a moderator shutting down a community of 25,000 individuals because of their own personal opinions is just as much if not the greater abuse of power.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by stcredzero on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:10PM (#13038679)
This is emblematic of what's wrong with so many subreddits and so much of the social web that comes in the form of "forums" -- it seems like we have entire generations of users who have associated the totalitarian nature of forums with things being "advanced" on the internet.

Social media isn't mostly about free thought, free speech, and free inquiry anymore. Nowadays, it's mostly about the rapid dissemination of conformity. Woe betide you if you actually have a nuanced opinion that doesn't fit neatly with either side of an issue. Your fellow posters/commenters will reject their pattern-match and call you a liar and 5th columnist for the other side.

Technology came and killed the impulse towards freedom. It taught people through repeated iteration that conformity to the mob was the highest good. It taught smart people that wrangling their way into positions of centralized power to exercise authoritarian rule was the insider move. It taught everyone that suppression of anything that you didn't like was the winning move. It was called the internet.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by pitay on Friday November 25, 2016 @08:47PM (#13041242)
Thanks for this, I have noticed that in the online communities where I hang out, it is nice to have the words of what has been annoying me. Thanks so much.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by stcredzero on Friday November 25, 2016 @09:46PM (#13041411)
Well, now that we've identified the problem, what can we do about it? Right now, large swathes of the internet are ruled by bullying stupids. What's more, that old saw about how you shouldn't argue with an idiot, because passerby just see two idiots? -- that's definitely in operation as well.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by pitay on Saturday December 03, 2016 @12:15AM (#13094443)
The one thing that I have done is criticize in a way that makes the person look terrible if they ban you for it. I don't know how well this does for the bigger picture. Sometimes it is quite scary doing this though. My apologies for not replying earlier. I think spreading awareness like you were in your comment is also great, at least for people who have experienced this before, because they say 'oh yeah, that's true'.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by threeseed on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:18PM (#13040258)
This is self righteous, moralising nonsense. You are free to say whatever you want on the internet. Set up a blog or website and go nuts.

You aren't free to dictate the behaviour of companies who don't want content on their site that is objectionable or factually baseless.

Likewise it is just hypocritical and hilarious to complain about conformity just because your opinions don't correspond with theirs. Those people have the right to say and think what they want just like you do.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by stcredzero on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:51PM (#13040423)
This is self righteous, moralising nonsense. You are free to say whatever you want on the internet. Set up a blog or website and go nuts.

I'm not so sure you're understanding where I'm coming from. I used to find online a place where I could freely express an opinion without fear of onerous consequences. Back in the old USENET days, there were trolls and heavy-handed moderation and all manner of unpleasantness, but there was also a widespread cultural respect for free speech.

Would you say that undoing net neutrality, then Comcast dropping all packets associated with anything expressing an anti-Comcast opinion is good and savory behavior? Would complaining about that be self righteous, moralizing nonsense?

The idea that people shouldn't engage in physical violence and intimidation could by the same logic be called self righteous, moralizing nonsense. ("FFS, just go and work out, take karate, or buy a gun or something!") Well, of course not. There is tremendous value in an open society where people can depend on the rule of law, driveable roads, electricity, plumbing, etc... Being civilized is literally valued at trillions of dollars in productivity. Likewise, there was tremendous value in open forums where people were free to express themselves and generally agreed to disagree. That's not what we have today. Basically, people bully other people by numbers and social pressure, or through moderation mechanisms. Your idea of "freedom" seems to be like a medieval form of "freedom" where any robber baron can set up a castle and start issuing his own laws and coinage. A truly open society is open globally, and people are free to roam and transact in a relatively relaxed fashion. Now, the morality of today's online world seems to be leaking into the real world, with that kind of deleting "moderation" applied to people's membership in civic organizations. Sorry, but that's petty and non-enlightened. It's like you don't believe the truth will set you free, and it's only pressure, numbers, and mechanisms that will win the day.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by themattbook on Friday November 25, 2016 @10:35PM (#13041589)
"Would you say that undoing net neutrality, then Comcast dropping all packets associated with anything expressing an anti-Comcast opinion is good and savory behavior? Would complaining about that be self righteous, moralizing nonsense?"

That is the perfect analogy for this situation.

Furthermore, I'd say a group of moderators who resort to discussing the future of their subreddit in a democratic and mature fashion; ensuring the integrity of their future, is far from comparable to what the CEO of Reddit has done.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by nurettin on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @12:17AM (#13061010)
Unfortunately, your verbosity and rhetorics don't make up for "the truth", "civilization", "anti-corporate revolt" or any other intellectual and ethical monopoly you claim to hold on reality. You automatically assume that your correspondents are fools and boiling frogs. If people have left your lengthy claims of net neutrality being broken by the shutdown of a subreddit with individuals who are accused of doxxing alone, that is because they would rather play tetris than tap hundreds of times on their little devices in order to show your opinions the proverbial door on the subject of this matter. And that is, unfortunately for you, the core value of free speech.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by appleiigs on Friday November 25, 2016 @09:58PM (#13041446)
"Woe betide you if you actually have a nuanced opinion that doesn't fit neatly with either side of an issue. Your fellow posters/commenters will reject their pattern-match and call you a liar and 5th columnist for the other side"

lol, his comment fits this perfectly.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by _coldfire on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:51AM (#13037972)
Exactly. Didn't make it far through that thread, but what is the proposed alternative? It's a bizarre, kneejerk reaction by a few people that ultimately may harm an entire language still in its formative years.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by pessimizer on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:23PM (#13038796)
> may harm an entire language still in its formative years.

Who cares? If people don't want to use the language they won't, and if people do, they will. I refuse to feel bad for the language.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by nurettin on Friday November 25, 2016 @10:54AM (#13037533)
Willing to abuse it - that is conspiracy -. How do you know that something done once will repeat? Will google restart google buzz because they did it once? Will everyone jump ship to RoR because they did it before? I am doing everything I can not to create strawmen believe me, but your explanation simply does not cut it.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by TeMPOraL on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:26AM (#13037777)
Because the power is there and it's tempting to use. Restarting Buzz may not have economic sense for Google, but abusing admin-edit powers has obvious value for the abusers and may be hard to catch if the abuser is not an idiot. "Opportunity makes a thief", and all.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by oneeyedpigeon on Friday November 25, 2016 @12:21PM (#13038244)
But, realistically, the power is there on any site featuring user contributions - Hacker News, Twitter, Slashdot, etc. etc. Humans are fallible; given infinite time, the same thing will happen on those sites too, and probably worse. If you push someone hard enough (I don't know the full story, but I believe the CEO was provoked) they will lash out and do something stupid unless they are incredibly serene or lack any emotion.

If that possibility is too much of a concern, maybe we need to come up with an alternative - like some kind of decentralised, mass-distributed reddit-like. Actually, wasn't that usenet? Is it too late to get that back?

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by Buge on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:14PM (#13038718)
When people get "pushed hard enough" the usual thing is deleting comments and banning users. That's a known and accepted moderation power. Sure it's abused sometimes, but at least it's not lying and wrongly attributing negative comments to people.

Invisibly editing comments is a very unexpected route to take. I doubt you could push most CEOs to that. They would just delete the comment.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by stcredzero on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:33PM (#13040332)
That's a known and accepted moderation power. Sure it's abused sometimes...

That you'd say this is an indication of how far the culture online has fallen. What's now taken as an accepted use of moderation power was once considered abusive.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by sqeaky on Friday November 25, 2016 @02:45PM (#13039329)
These other sites have demonstrated trustworthiness, as has Reddit up until this.

We all know that site operators can change things, but some of them have enough integrity to be trusted not to.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by eridius on Friday November 25, 2016 @02:16PM (#13039139)
The power has always been there. The fact that it's taken until now for the CEO to use it suggests that it's not actually ripe for abuse. And the fact that the CEO immediately reverted it, apologized, and is watching the community blow up, serves as even further motivation for not abusing this power again.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by forgetsusername on Friday November 25, 2016 @02:30PM (#13039233)
>The fact that it's taken until now for the CEO to use it suggests that it's not actually ripe for abuse.

And you know this how, exactly? Because the perpetrator said so?

I find the scenario that this was the first and only time this was done implausible.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by eridius on Friday November 25, 2016 @04:13PM (#13039870)
Because nobody's even hinted that this has been done before. When someone's comments are edited, that person can see it[1], as can anyone who remembers the comment pre-edit. Add to that the fact that comments that are worth editing (beyond the rather unimportant "fuck u/spez" type of comment) are also presumably highly visible, it would be pretty hard for them to have a history of editing comments without someone having noticed before now.

[1] Modifying Reddit software to let them hide the edit from the comment author would be visible to anyone with source access, meaning it can't be done without the support of all of their developers, and so probably wasn't.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by hashhar on Saturday November 26, 2016 @05:05AM (#13042789)
Reddit's website source code is actually open sourced. The backing database is not though.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by eridius on Tuesday November 29, 2016 @07:37PM (#13067493)
The anti-spam measures aren't open sourced, which means they could conceivably have other changes that aren't open sourced too.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by shadowmint on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:07AM (#13037627)
Then leave. Don't use the site.

How is this a big deal?

If you're not comfortable with a platform then by every means, don't use it.

...but why does what you think mean that everyone should be affected?

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by xg15 on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:34AM (#13037843)
Network effect. If only few people leave, each of them has to face a penalty for leaving (in this case not being able to participate in one of Go's main discussion hubs). If the whole community decides to leave (or rather move), there is no such penalty.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by sangnoir on Friday November 25, 2016 @04:22PM (#13039934)
This would be selfish, coercive and has 0 chance of working in the real world: I guarantee you there will be /r/golang2 or /r/gogophers within minutes of the the original subreddit being closed.

As mentioned by someone else in the thread: the subreddit was in existence before being taken over by the golang team, it was fine before them, it will be fine after them if they choose to leave.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by toomuchtodo on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:20AM (#13037737)
Because then people don't get to be righteous.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by threeseed on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:22PM (#13040270)
That's the best thing about righteous people. The ease with which they want to control and dictate the opinions and behaviours of other people.
Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by sqeaky on Friday November 25, 2016 @02:46PM (#13039337)
Because the long term damage could be larger than the short term costs.

I do not know if that is the case, that is up to the mods of /r/golang.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by threeseed on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:13PM (#13040228)
The reason he removed the post was because he was being called a paedophile for killing off the pizzagate subreddit.

There is a ton of drama and conspiracy nonsense tied up in this. Frankly /r/the_donald should have been removed as well for the libelous and disgraceful comments.

Re:Deleting the golang subreddit by ticviking on Friday November 25, 2016 @08:42PM (#13041229)
I largely agree with you, but wanted to add some more context.

The issue is, and has always been, caused by a serious problem in the reddit's admins have in being perceived as being unable to enforce the rules fairly.

From time to time communities that are overall "okay" get deeply invested in an issue and "drama" is spawned. Sometimes rules are broken. When particular subs visibly break rules and the rules are not enforced their opponents feel license to also break rules. Both sides of these disputes could name a dozen or times that the other side broke the rules. They have mountains of evidence of this, and don't trust the admins as a result.

Because of that, and the explicitly political nature of r/the_donald, none of the admins have felt they could enforce those rules. Into that toxic hellbroth of a situation /r/pizzagate repeatedly had dox-drops containing actual child pornography. Visibly breaking like the only true real rules reddit has, the admins took the only option they had, and ware demonized for it.

Largely because all moderator actions had become so politicized, and after reviewing reported content that I suspect may have been genuinely traumatizing to review he made a mistake.