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Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by phippsbrad on Monday November 21, 2016 @10:47AM (#13006223)
Sorry, but this sounds like just another silicon valley startup, living in their own little bubble, thinking that their special code can "change the world".

Imagine a log of transactions (a blockchain) confirming that Clinton got 1.5 million popular votes. That has ZERO effect on the Electoral College selecting Trump. So why even bring the election up? This guy might as well say that "a blockchain could stop the Patriot Act and the NSA wiretaps". No, it couldnt. Real political change happens through laws, constitutional ammendments, and court decisions. No amount of electronic blockchains will change that fact.

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by heliumcraft on Monday November 21, 2016 @12:16PM (#13007024)
I'm not saying it would affect the electoral college or electing some politician that I do or do not like. Some problems are entirely due to human nature, have been with us for a long time and will likely stay with us for a long time regarless of technology.

However It would certainly be nice to vote online yet anonymously, confident that I can see in a public secure ledger that my voted was counted as a intended and that no cheating or voting manipulation (on the ledger level) took place.

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by acdha on Monday November 21, 2016 @12:36PM (#13007205)
Consider that vision from the perspective of historical voter coercion attacks: how would that not provide the perfect way for an employer, church, union, controlling spouse, etc. to demand to see how you voted?

This is the same problem with Bitcoin privacy advocacy: it's a brittle design and the failure mode is complete, undeniable loss of privacy.

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by heliumcraft on Monday November 21, 2016 @12:53PM (#13007363)
The voting would using a cryptographic system to ensure confidentiality.

The coercion attack is an interesting problem but something that is already illegal but cannot be fully prevented. IMO it outweights the disadvantages of a centralized voting database that can be easily changed by a sys admin.

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by acdha on Monday November 21, 2016 @02:00PM (#13008087)
How would that magic crypto work? Remember, it needs to stop both willful vote selling and coerced checking.

Your second paragraph ignores the fact that the current system of anonymous ballots prevents the problem quite well, as evidenced by fraud rates measured in single-digit-per-billion levels, and paper ballots allow recounts without any use of computers and have the nice effect of making tapering a physically-diverse hard problem requiring a conspiracy involving far more people.

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by heliumcraft on Monday November 21, 2016 @02:23PM (#13008304)
See zk-snarks, zcash, homomorphic encryption, etc..

Let's not make this an accidental strawman.. My second paragraph is referring to electronic and internet voting solutions vs decentralized/blockchain solutions and NOT traditional in person voting with independent observers, etc..

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by acdha on Monday November 21, 2016 @02:48PM (#13008517)
> See zk-snarks, zcash, homomorphic encryption, etc..

Can you specify precisely how those work to prevent this problem? Remember, this is harder than trying to prevent a third-party from identifying users because the system has to survive collusion by the user.

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by heliumcraft on Monday November 21, 2016 @03:02PM (#13008634)
As in vote selling and coerced checking? probably can't, but then again, neither can centralized internet voting solutions. Even in normal voting, you can take a photo of the ballot to then prove who you voted for and get paid for it (and/or not get beaten).

Again this is not about perfect pie in the sky solution to all problems, just better digital voting solutions. As I said in the original comment, I don't think it will solve problems that have always been with us, but "It would certainly be nice to vote online yet anonymously, confident that I can see in a public secure ledger that my voted was counted as a intended and that no cheating or voting manipulation (==> ON THE LEDGER LEVEL <==) took place."

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by acdha on Monday November 21, 2016 @03:25PM (#13008853)
> As in vote selling and coerced checking? probably can't, but then again, neither can centralized internet voting solutions.

This is one of the reasons why we don't have internet voting: it's inferior to the status quo in critical areas. “blockchain” is not magic pixie dust which fixes that problem and the people backing it don't seem to have studied the problem very deeply, as evidenced by your repeated assertions that “the voting would using a cryptographic system to ensure confidentiality” before finally admitting that nobody has proposed a system resistant to a key class of attacks.

> Even in normal voting, you can take a photo of the ballot to then prove who you voted for and get paid for it (and/or not get beaten).

The difference is that it's harder to do that – or even illegal, see http://bigstory.ap.org/article/709338e5557a49e7ad5c68109ffec... – and it's not foolproof since you could take a picture of a ballot but void it and cast a different one, both of which make widespread coercion or selling unreliable.

> As I said in the original comment, I don't think it will solve problems that have always been with us

Simply asserting that it's always been with us doesn't change the fact that this is a problem which the current status quo was actively designed to prevent and that the proposed system makes that problem far worse.

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by heliumcraft on Monday November 21, 2016 @03:47PM (#13009051)
The whole discussion was NOT about the status quo traditional voting vs blockchain, It was about Internet voting in regards to centralized solutions vs decentralized/blockchain solutions. They both share SOME similar problems, but the blockchain is a improvement in many regards albeit not a perfect one. There is still a lot of open problems in regards to this. For the moment though, in person voting it's still better.

The day might come though that internet voting will be widespread. When that day comes I rather have a decentralized solution solution than a centralized one that can be easily manipulated.

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by grogenaut on Monday November 21, 2016 @12:35PM (#13007195)
Sure but what your are really saying is it'd be awesome if the election results were cryptographically and anonymously verifiable by the voters. Of which the block chain is merely one solution.

How do you get valid voting credentials to nontechnical voters such that they can anonymously vote and verify?

Re:Is Blockchain Technology Going to Disrupt Our Political S... by heliumcraft on Monday November 21, 2016 @12:55PM (#13007383)
Indeed. I'm not claiming the blockchain is the only solution, but currently it's a pretty good one. I would hope for a centralized solution actually if that would help adoption and prevent voting fraud.

> How do you get valid voting credentials to nontechnical voters such that they can anonymously vote and verify?

That has to do with identity systems (see uPort, onename) and is an interesting & open problem.