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Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by ChildOfChaos on Monday November 21, 2016 @09:36AM (#13005650)
Who cares? Who uses these? You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in, type in your password on your devices and boom you never think or worry about it again.

There is no need for Apple to be in this market, there is no problem to be solved for 99.9% of people.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by Aaargh20318 on Monday November 21, 2016 @10:13AM (#13005943)
> You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in, type in your password on your devices and boom you never think or worry about it again.

Usually, you don't even want to remove the PoS router you get from your ISP from it's box. In my experience no ISP ever gives away decent equipment, it's just the cheapest thing they could order in quantity.

Another issue with an ISP-issued router is that you have no idea what they did and can do with it. I know of several ISP's that have full remote access to the routers they hand out. Basically, you risk exposing your entire home network.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by agentgt on Monday November 21, 2016 @11:19AM (#13006531)
For Verizon Fios you have no choice. I mean sure you can disable the wifi of the router and use an access point like I do but you have to use their router at some point in the chain.

There are have been some guides to try to bypass the router and go strait to the OTN but it is extremely non trivial.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by For_Iconoclasm on Monday November 21, 2016 @11:46AM (#13006764)
This is false if you're only using Fios for internet service. Verizon asked me if I was providing my own router, and I said yes. The tech who "installed" and activated my ONT confirmed that I was using my own router so that he could activate the ethernet port on the device. There was nothing to bypass—it fell within their expectations.

I hear it's a challenge to avoid the standard Verizon router if you also have TV or phone service through Fios.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by agentgt on Monday November 21, 2016 @12:01PM (#13006899)
It must be because I have TV through them because I literally begged them and offered other pricing to not use their router and they said it was not possible.

I also confirmed this a while back on some forums but perhaps they have changed this. It is good to hear you had success. Do you have a residential or biz plan?

Edit:

Here is the link (I was mistaken and thought it was on a forum): http://theassociatespress.com/bypass-fios-router-entirely/

Like I said before it is pretty non trivial and you have to plead your case to them to let it happen.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by ryao on Monday November 21, 2016 @12:12PM (#13006993)
They lied. With modern FiOS equipment, you just need a MoCA 2.0 bridge and for the ONT to be provisioned for ethernet. Their router can even be used as a MoCA bridge or run in an Ethernet configuration. There is at least one guy on Reddit who has the FiOS TV guide working without Verizon's router by doing that.

My own household used its own router with the Verizon router configured as a MoCA bridge almost exclusively from 2006 until 2015 when we cancelled FiOS TV in favor of an OTA TV antenna. There were a few brief periods of time where I tried having Verizon's router be the gateway router, but it turned out to be awful.

Expect to hear the CSR make vague references to advanced features being absent when saying that you want to use your own router over their advice to rent theirs. The only "advanced feature" that would be absent is Verizon's remote management backdoor.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by danieldk on Monday November 21, 2016 @10:30AM (#13006061)
There is no need for Apple to be in this market,

Of course there is a need. Apple has always been one of the first to use new WiFi standards, the Airports made these transfer speeds non-theoretical. My three year-old Airport still beats my 2016 cable modem royally on 802.11 AC. And this is not one of those cheapo cable modems (basically the latest and greatest Fritz!Box).

A large chunk of Apple users that I know have an Airport or Time Capsule for these and other reasons.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by DocTomoe on Monday November 21, 2016 @09:46AM (#13005741)
> boom you never think or worry about it again.

Experience tells me this is not actually the case. Provider-provided routers are a major PITA if you want them secure and stable.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by 72deluxe on Monday November 21, 2016 @10:10AM (#13005920)
I had a router from BT that despite having won awards, could not resolve its external IPv4 address internally. It knew what its external address was and knew that it had to DMZ everything to an internal address, but if you attempted to resolve the external address (expecting it to go to your DMZ'd machine), it'd fail.

I also had a router from another UK ISP that would crash and hang if you sent it a malformed IP packet (ie put its respond-to address as itself); it'd go mental replying to itself and then processing the messages it sent to itself. Not quality.

The EE broadband router I had would hand off its internal web admin session to external visitors if they connected whilst a web admin session was in progress. Yes, let's hand our internal web admin session page to an external visitor....

BT sent another hub that looked identical and worked correctly; underneath it was a Siemens instead of a Thompson I think.

So all in all, I have found that the ISP boxes were never really finished, and some (like Sky's box) needed rebooting periodically as I recall, so buggy too.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by Vendan on Monday November 21, 2016 @11:16AM (#13006506)
> I had a router from BT that despite having won awards, could not resolve its external IPv4 address internally. It knew what its external address was and knew that it had to DMZ everything to an internal address, but if you attempted to resolve the external address (expecting it to go to your DMZ'd machine), it'd fail.

to be fair, I've got $1000 cisco hardware that can't wrap the external IP like that...

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by jlgaddis on Monday November 21, 2016 @06:54PM (#13010420)
FWIW, they can... if you configure them correctly.

  same-security-traffic permit intra-interface
  static (inside,inside) ...
should get you most (or all) of the way there.
Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by retromario on Monday November 21, 2016 @05:26PM (#13009806)
Does your BT hub still contain a backdoor? https://cryptome.org/2014/10/BTAgent-cpe-backdoor.htm
Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by 72deluxe on Thursday November 24, 2016 @07:12AM (#13029913)
Mine is now an EE box (so who knows what lurks inside) - that link made for interesting reading!
Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by bnastic on Monday November 21, 2016 @10:03AM (#13005865)
I use one (Time Capsule), and have used them for years. They have a pretty convincing value add story... let alone the fact that I also have a few Express stations around the place for music streaming.
Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by ceejayoz on Monday November 21, 2016 @09:39AM (#13005689)
> You're provider gives you a free router when you sign up and you plug it in

Time Warner charges $10/month for theirs, and they're awful.

Re:Apple Abandons Development of Wireless Routers by jdc0589 on Monday November 21, 2016 @10:43AM (#13006183)
some routers provided by ISPs also broadcast public WIFI networks that any customer of the ISP can use. Not something I'm interested in; the last thing I want is more frequency congestion around my house.