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Re:Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China by rahimnathwani on Thursday November 17, 2016 @03:06PM (#12980961)
I'd love it if all cars in China were self-driving. The road situation causes me stress whether I'm a pedestrian, cyclist or a car passenger (I don't drive here in Beijing). A few weeks ago, it took me over 3 hours to cover 16km in Beijing. It would have been faster to walk. The visible causes were:

- Drivers in Beijing drive slowly when there's heavy rain

- The sheer number of cars

- Drivers in Beijing advance into traffic-light controlled intersections even when the path ahead of them is blocked, causing a junction to get blocked up, even when all lanes leading away from it

I'm not sure what the other causes were (I heard that road space had just been reduced by the addition of a bus lane on the third ring road). I'm not sure what made that day much much worse than others (and it wasn't just me - I had a friend report a similar speed coming from a different part of the city).

I really wish Beijing had yellow boxes, and strong enforcement of not-stopping-in-junctions, like in London: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-rou....

I wish even more that the problem of humans needing to drive were solved.

But I'm not sure "Self driving cars are much more valuable to China than the US" is true. Each has a similar number of cars overall. China might skew more towards urban. But the cost for a full-time driver in China is 15%-25% of what it would be in the US, so the amount of GDP replaced by self-driving cars would be higher in the US, no?

Moreover, the lack of parking won't be solved by self-driving cars alone. People who can afford their own car will need to be persuaded to use car-sharing services instead. Without this, people will still want their cars to be near where they sleep, meaning that unused cars will still be jamming up the city whilst unused.

Re:Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China by Animats on Thursday November 17, 2016 @03:20PM (#12981101)
- Drivers in Beijing advance into traffic-light controlled intersections even when the path ahead of them is blocked, causing a junction to get blocked up, even when all lanes leading away from it

This is the literal "gridlock" problem, which can lock up a road system. The US had that problem in some cities until New York City introduced "Don't Block the Box" around 1980. It took a PR campaign, and, some ticketing, and painting a big box with diagonal lines across some intersections, but eventually drivers got the idea to not enter the intersection until they had a way out of it. San Francisco is starting to have gridlock again, and a new "Don't Block the Box" campaign was started in 2014.

Re:Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China by cesarbs on Thursday November 17, 2016 @05:56PM (#12982546)
And yet every now and then I'll be stopped waiting for a blocked intersection to clear before advancing, and the asshole behind me will start honking.

I live in the Seattle area though, not NYC.

Re:Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China by spydum on Thursday November 17, 2016 @04:06PM (#12981566)
interesting. I wonder how automated traffic cameras/redlight ticket systems would impact that? I suspect most people "squeeze" into the intersection to avoid the next cycle, because they dont see a traffic cop around. if all intersections are photo enforced, you'd think that problem would go away (or at least, citations would go up enough to fund some better traffic control/flow solutions)
Re:Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China by Animats on Thursday November 17, 2016 @04:40PM (#12981946)
It's more a training/PR problem than an enforcement problem. Painting intersections prone to gridlock with a diagonally hashed box helps more than ticketing. Here's the Ministry of the Interior of Quatar trying to get through to drivers on Twitter.[1]

"In this business there are very few problems that can't be solved with some yellow paint and a little bit of common sense." - Henry Barnes, NYC traffic commissioner.

[1] https://twitter.com/moi_qataren/status/643829644253261824

Re:Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China by seanmcdirmid on Thursday November 17, 2016 @05:21PM (#12982280)
China (well, Beijing) has tons of photo enforced intersections, but the government itself doesn't see "blocking intersection" as wrong so they never ticket for that.

Also, I've never seen a traffic cop actually pull someone over or do enforcement at all (maybe some DUI checkpoints, that's it!). If it wasn't for the cameras, no laws would ever get enforced. They only enforce parking laws a couple of times a year, so many two lane roads have become one lane as citizens take advantage of a lack of parking enforcement and a lack of cheap parking.

Re:Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China by seanmcdirmid on Thursday November 17, 2016 @03:10PM (#12981007)
China lacks road infrastructure in dense cities, and lacks the room to build what it actually needs. By moving to self driving cars from say taxis, road usage can be increased dramatically (closer following distances, faster speeds, cooperative traffic control). It isn't the cost of the driver that is the issue here, it isn't the same benefit as we are expecting for the USA.

People in china are already ok with Uber, didi, and of course taxis. The private car was more about prestige and convenience (availability), not sure what to do about the former, but the latter is fixable easily enough.

Re:Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China by kpil on Thursday November 17, 2016 @03:33PM (#12981220)
In Europe, during the 18th and 19th century, the kings and emperors decided that they wanted grand esplanades and straight roads so they could have nice parades, preferably between some nice castles or parks. So they just demolished everything that was in the way. But hey! Marching in cool hats!

I am not sure about U.S, but my guess is that the cities started to grow a little bit later, the people probably looked at the European kings cool-looking roads, and probably decided that they could do even better and just went for an even cooler looking grid instead just some avenues scattered here and there!