Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by devonkim on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @01:50PM
(#12960981)
It's not clear how much of these improvements are from reductions in pricing rather than algorithms and design decisions. They've documented things like using Netty for network latency, avoiding GC, and getting better with Spark, but it'd be interesting if the team could go back and run the benchmark using the same infrastructure as their 2014 benchmark for a code-vs-code comparison to separate engineering improvements from economies of scale.
Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by rxin on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @02:14PM
(#12961198)
I definitely agree that it'd be great to decouple the improvements in software and drops in cloud pricing. In reality it is pretty difficult because the Nanjing U/Alibaba team spent a lot of time also optimizing the software specifically for the AliCloud environment, which might not be applicable when running on Amazon EC2, which was the environment of the 2014 record.
This is a great task for a rigorous academic paper!
Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by Bedon292 on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @06:53PM
(#12963427)
I agree, hard to understand the changes. Actually fond some addition info as I was writing this though. http://sortbenchmark.org/
Old record was 330 r3.4xlarge machines. Which actually cost very similar today. It looks like the old record used a LOT more RAM than this one. 40,260GB vs 3,152GB and similar CPU 5,280 vs 4,728 cores. Although having the RAM doesn't mean it was used, but unless they were using all the RAM I don't see why they would use the more expensive r3 instances.
Edit: Follow on, I think the cost savings is definitely in the low RAM usage. Can't really get that many cores without more than 3 times as much RAM in AWS.
Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by embiggen on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @05:52PM
(#12963061)
Meanwhile, google was sorting Petabytes in under a minute on their clusters 6+ years ago. We've still got a long ways to go in OSS land to compete with the big boys.
When I asked why BigQuery doesn't do these sorts, the answer came straight from the post "Nobody really wants a huge globally-sorted output. We haven’t found a single use case for the problem as stated."
Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by andrioni on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @07:57PM
(#12963727)
Do you think you could ask someone and find out the cluster sizes they used for those sorts? They mention "With the largest cluster at Google under our control", but it would be more interesting to have an idea of actual numbers, even if just an order of magnitude.
Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by rxin on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @09:10PM
(#12964004)
I'd argue this (performance/cost) is exactly the right metric to measure. One of the biggest benefits of the cloud is elasticity. In on-premise world, one would have to provision based on peak demand, and most of the time the cluster utilization rate is pretty low.
Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by rxin on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @09:52PM
(#12964163)
The one-off cost is very high, and there is higher ongoing maintenance cost as well. Most organizations are moving to the cloud, because it in general makes more economic sense.
Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by flukus on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @10:55PM
(#12964420)
I'm really not seeing most organizations moving to the cloud. It only makes sense economically for the smallest companies/organisations that can't afford maintenance costs. Most bigger ones won't risk the loss of their core data and a lot can't go to the cloud for various reasons like legality, speed and redundancy.
Re:Setting a new world record in CloudSort with Apache Spark
by iaw on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @05:16PM
(#12962803)
The title has been changed, the original post didn't reference CloudSort and I'm not sure if it included Apache Spark either. It was something along the lines of "New record, 1TB at $1.44"
This is a great task for a rigorous academic paper!
Disclaimer: I wrote the blog post.
Spark is a way of processing data, ideally stored in a system of record (Hive/HDFS/S3/MemSQL etc).
They're not the same.
For the kinds of processing both Spark and MemSQL do (e.g. join operation) is Spark faster than MemSQL?
Old record was 330 r3.4xlarge machines. Which actually cost very similar today. It looks like the old record used a LOT more RAM than this one. 40,260GB vs 3,152GB and similar CPU 5,280 vs 4,728 cores. Although having the RAM doesn't mean it was used, but unless they were using all the RAM I don't see why they would use the more expensive r3 instances.
Edit: Follow on, I think the cost savings is definitely in the low RAM usage. Can't really get that many cores without more than 3 times as much RAM in AWS.
- https://cloud.google.com/blog/big-data/2016/02/history-of-ma...
When I asked why BigQuery doesn't do these sorts, the answer came straight from the post "Nobody really wants a huge globally-sorted output. We haven’t found a single use case for the problem as stated."
These accomplishments are awesome nevertheless!
Disclaimer: I'm Felipe Hoffa, and I work for Google (http://twitter.com/felipehoffa).
:)
Also, seeing how expensive it is to sort 100TB ($144) you have to wonder why it wouldn't be better to do it on your own hardware.
Hence my confusion.