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Re:A list of modern C++ features by pjmlp on Monday November 14, 2016 @07:57AM (#12949489)
How specially Ada?!

The only thing Ada has thrown away was GC support that no compiler vendor has ever bothered to implement.

What other features were thrown away across Ada83, Ada95, Ada2005 and Ada2012?

If I present you Ada random code snippet X, are you sure you will be able to say which language version it requires?

Also Python is the poster child of what happens when you throw compatibility away.

Re:A list of modern C++ features by BeetleB on Monday November 14, 2016 @11:16AM (#12950737)
>Also Python is the poster child of what happens when you throw compatibility away.

And what, exactly, happened?

For years I avoided Python3. Updating my code base was a hassle I did not want to deal with.

Finally, a few months ago, I had some spare time and took the dive.

And nothing bad happened. I did not even spend hours on it. At this point, all the libraries I need exist for Python3, and the automated tools update my code for Python3 without manual intervention almost every time.

Re:A list of modern C++ features by pjmlp on Monday November 14, 2016 @12:54PM (#12951712)
Of a community dragging their feets while avoiding to upgrade at all costs, with developers being forced to backport features into the 2.x branch.
Re:A list of modern C++ features by BeetleB on Monday November 14, 2016 @01:45PM (#12952176)
>Of a community dragging their feets while avoiding to upgrade at all costs, with developers being forced to backport features into the 2.x branch.

A minor problem compared to dealing with developers continually using poor paradigms for eternity because C++ did not want to break compatibility.

And I believe the developers who backport to 2.x are not those who implement the features in 3.x. The latter don't care at all about 2.x. Those who backport do not see it as a "pain" but as a new feature to add to their language.

Re:A list of modern C++ features by blub on Monday November 14, 2016 @02:00PM (#12952302)
It's amazing that there's someone out there thinking that Python's compatibility break is a "minor problem", even when comparing apples to oranges.

Fortunately the architects of the change said that they've learned their lesson. They don't have much choice either, another one like this and it would be bye bye python.

Re:A list of modern C++ features by BeetleB on Monday November 14, 2016 @04:18PM (#12953460)
>It's amazing that there's someone out there thinking that Python's compatibility break is a "minor problem", even when comparing apples to oranges.

Certainly did not affect me or anyone I know.

Re:A list of modern C++ features by 0xAA55 on Monday November 14, 2016 @08:15AM (#12949594)
What I meant to emphasize was that Ada was well designed in the first place, and yes GC was a problem and so were some of the restrictions and aspects of the standard libraries. For example, a big one was unconstrained types for generic actuals...

C is a mine-field of devastating design flaws which have caused many people to die because of decades old decisions made on a whim and any change to basic libraries to make them safer and removing dangerous functions is heresy.

As far as Python, yes the two versions of the language is troublesome for users but the language is objectively better and students learning programming for the first time benefit from a more robust version.

Feel free to give me a random code snippet ;p

Re:A list of modern C++ features by AnimalMuppet on Monday November 14, 2016 @12:20PM (#12951385)
> C is a mine-field of devastating design flaws which have caused many people to die because of decades old decisions made on a whim...

Wow. Hyperbole much?

I get that you don't like C, but you sound like a raving lunatic who is completely unconnected with reality.

Devastating design flaws? Flaws I can agree with. Devastating? That sounds a bit overstated.

Caused many people to die? I call BS. (Yes, I'm pretty sure you might be able to document a few. But you said "many", and I'm calling you on it.)

Decisions made on a whim? Again, BS. In fact, at this point you're just making stuff up.

Re:A list of modern C++ features by 0xAA55 on Monday November 14, 2016 @12:51PM (#12951696)
First of all what if I am lunatic xD

There are so many parts of C that are unsafe that a secondary tool is needed to have an reasonable type-checking and that tends to be devastating if they can be easily avoided by even safety critical engineers.

https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_... "Toyota does not claim to have followed MISRA Guidelines"

And honestly I dont think we agree on what "a few" is. In my book if any more than 4 or 10 people die from a solved problem in computer science (like strong typing, mutexes, and range checking) that is already way too yes many

As far as decisions on a whim compare the two language design efforts and i'll let you decide:

http://www.adapower.com/index.php?Command=Class&ClassID=FAQ&... "The requirements were not a language specification, but instead they attempted to define rigorously the needed characteristics in a form that could be critically reviewed."

https://www.codingunit.com/the-history-of-the-c-language “It’s entirely Dennis Ritchie’s work”

Re:A list of modern C++ features by AnimalMuppet on Monday November 14, 2016 @04:44PM (#12953651)
"Decided by one man" != "decided on a whim".
Re:A list of modern C++ features by 0xAA55 on Monday November 14, 2016 @07:08PM (#12954520)
"...despite the changes that it has undergone since its first published description, which was admittedly informal and incomplete..." ~ Dennis M. Ritchie

It took a decade to even decide what the C language really was and standardize it -- sounds pretty undefined and whimsical to me. But we all use and understand words differently so let's agree to disagree :)

Re:A list of modern C++ features by pjmlp on Monday November 14, 2016 @09:19AM (#12949911)
I fully agree with you regarding C, but even though C++ happens to be copy-paste compatible with it, C++ isn't C.

It does provide the necessary language features for security conscious developers to write safe code, the fact that many write C++ as if it was "C with C++ compiler" is an unfortunate one.

Yes it would have been great that we had Ada instead of C++, sadly that wasn't what greedy Ada compiler vendors wanted us to have.

Re:A list of modern C++ features by 0xAA55 on Monday November 14, 2016 @10:12AM (#12950228)
Indeed, except for all the flaws C++ decided to add from C including is cryptic syntax (i++, ++i, <<, ::, ?) and macros it is a good language.

In fact, from that list it seems like it is finally meeting parody on key Ada 95 features -- so maybe we dont have to be so sad :)