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Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by seszett on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @10:52AM (#12901176)
Well, I'm not sure where you're from but I'm thankful my ancestors didn't have your attitude when confronted to dictatorship.

Your contempt for those people who are fighting for their freedom in their own country is astonishing.

Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by vinceguidry on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @11:00AM (#12901264)
What, exactly, do you think Hong Kong could possibly do to preserve their freedoms? China has been moving its citizens over to Hong Kong for a decade now, citizens who answer to the Communist Party and vote Communist in all matters. How many more years do you think they'll have to do that before the people who grew up in the old system are completely outvoted in every matter?

I'll all for standing up to the man, but let's get real, this battle is unwinnable. Even if all of Hong Kong decided to really start fighting to preserve their way of life, China would just declare martial law and that will be that.

Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by rawnlq on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @01:14PM (#12902553)
Mainlanders actually have to go through a lot of hoops to move to Hong Kong so I am pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about. They don't even speak the same dialect.

I am pretty sure you had no idea about the mass protests[1] that are ongoing in the past few years either. How can you look at this crowd of several hundred thousand protesters and claim that they are powerless?

Another Tiananmen square probably can't happen again in the digital age. Or maybe it can, but only due to our defeatist indifference.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests

[2]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-30390820

Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by vinceguidry on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @01:42PM (#12902790)
Okay, ask yourself exactly what these protests can hope to accomplish. Protests happen all the time, everywhere. Nobody hears about them because the state controls the media. Nothing happens because the Communist Party has plenty of people there taking notes on who is there and they keep careful tabs on them.

If it starts to look like they're getting uppity, they'll get a visit from their local Party leadership and gently encouraged to stop their foolishness. Escalate as appropriate.

Defeatism is precisely appropriate here. You have to ask yourself how badly you want change. Enough to put your family's livelihood at risk?

Nothing here is worth fighting a war over, and that's what it would take to meaningfully change the way politics is conducted in China. Everybody's best bet is to just fall in line and hope the Party doesn't totally bungle this five year plan.

Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by MrZongle2 on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @11:45AM (#12901709)
In vinceguidry's defense, most countries don't have the kind of heads-up about looming dictatorships that Hong Kong had: the Sino-British Joint Declaration in December 1984 made it clear that handover would take place in 1997.

If you were concerned about being governed by Communists, you had 13 years to get the hell out. And if you weren't concerned about being governed by Communists...well, you clearly hadn't been paying attention to history. Tiananmen Square (1989) alone should have been a wake-up call to China's future subjects.

This doesn't make what's happening now less appalling, but HK residents had ample opportunity to avoid the inevitable. Compare that to other dictatorships that sprung up relatively overnight; in Turkey, for instance, Erdogan has been president for little more than 2 years.

Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by brian_cloutier on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @12:54PM (#12902388)
Erdogan founded Akparty, the ruling party, 15 years ago (In 2001). He was prime minister for 11 years before becoming president. What has happened to Turkey happened quickly but took much longer than 2 years.

To add, I don't know much about Hong Kong, but it's pretty difficult to leave Turkey if you're a citizen, not many countries want to give you a Visa meaning only the educated, upper class, is able to leave. If you're proposing a solution you should propose one which doesn't leave behind all the poor.

Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by 11thEarlOfMar on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @12:15PM (#12902010)
>13 years to get the hell out

This is exactly why my father-in-law sent all 5 of his kids to the US for college. All 5 now have US passports and can leave Hong Kong if and when it becomes worse than they can stand. So far, 2 of them have made the move.

Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by rodgerd on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @12:15PM (#12902012)
> you had 13 years to get the hell out.

Good luck with immigration. Britain certainly didn't want to let many of its former subject leave.

Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by jahewson on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @01:08PM (#12902509)
And where exactly were 7 million people supposed to move?
Re:“The whole world ought to be concerned”: HK lawyers on Be... by MrZongle2 on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @01:21PM (#12902607)
That's the responsibility of the individual, or the family.

As an aside, the United States alone has brought in more than 7 million immigrants from all over the world, in just the past decade.