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Re:One Road Out of Depression by patrickdavey on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @10:41AM (#12901079)
When I got Depressed (capital D, though I was only 4 on a 10 point scale) the hardest part for me was accepting that I needed to take medication, that I couldn't WILL myself better (not for want of trying I can tell you).

Maybe some people can think themselves better, but if you are properly depressed, and your doctor is suggesting medication, it's not failing/losing/lessening to take the drugs to correct a chemical imbalance. And stay on them until you're supposed to come off (not when you begin to feel better), as the last thing you want is to ping-pong between highs & lows.

Of course, fix the underlying issue (if there is one) when you can (i.e. see a psychologist and get proper instruction), but you want to get to a stable place first.

This is just my comment, a sample size of 1, but if it helps anyone else reading through this, so much the better.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by curun1r on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @11:23AM (#12901480)
> that I couldn't WILL myself better (not for want of trying I can tell you).

Trying to will myself better didn't work for me either. But medication made things so much worse. I was emotionally numb for a decade because I bought into the thinking that the medication was helping. It allowed me to get back to work, but I lost 10 years in the prime of my life that I'll never get back. Ironically, having so many regrets for those 10 years clued me into the damaging thought patterns that were causing my depression. My mind was spending too much time thinking about the past and visualizing the future.

A conscious emphasis on being present and living in the moment has done wonders for me. And I only mention this because your comment felt like willing yourself better was the only way to think your way out of depression, which is absolutely not the case. Sometimes perspective matters more than determination.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by swift on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @05:36PM (#12915464)
Just for the sake of a contrasting story here: refusing to take medication for almost a decade ended up almost totally destroying my life. I came dangerously close to suicide. Thankfully I'm finally back on medication now and am slowly rebuilding. I've seen the same thing happen to several friends.

I don't mean to invalidate curun1r's experience, but I do want to make sure that people will not read a post like that and conclude, as I once wrongly did, that they are better off without medication. A bad early experience with a psychiatrist who prescribed the wrong medication for me resulted in this same experience of emotional numbness, and quitting my medication to avoid that was exactly what led me down an extremely dangerous path. It's the single decision I regret the most in my entire life.

For some people, medication really is the best chance of living something approaching a normal life. You may try medication and come to the same conclusion as curun1r, but please do not dismiss the idea out of hand, and if it isn't working well for you, try working with your psychiatrist to make things better, or maybe just getting a new psychiatrist altogether, before giving up.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by xapata on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @01:15PM (#12902565)
Same here. I have found that my personality is far more malleable than folks expect -- habits, feelings, preferences.
Re:One Road Out of Depression by chrisper on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @11:36AM (#12901614)
What did the people who told you to take the medication tell you about the issue of feeling numb?
Re:One Road Out of Depression by bpchaps on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @02:53PM (#12903391)
I used to take lithium and brought up to my doctor that it destroyed my creativity, which affected my job. His answer was, "Then the medication is doing its job."

Psychiatry has been a very unempathetic field in my experience (across 4-5 doctors), so a "deal with it" response would be unsurprising.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by joesmo on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @04:04PM (#12903924)
After I lost my dad, that's what the therapist I tried to see said: "Deal with it." At that point, I realized I was wasting my money. It took many more years, almost losing everything, and sheer fucking willpower to undo what the psychiatrists did with their meds. "Take your meds like a mindless cow," is psychiatry's attitude because they're making incredible profits off your sickness. And they get the patients to evangelize (see the top parent comment in this thread) and spread their nonsense while people are getting sick, dying, or at least wasting a whole lot of money on drugs that don't help them.

Unempathetic doesn't even begin to describe the profession. Anti-Hippocratic oath might be the place to start if you're looking for a way to describe this field. Profit driven would be even better.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by perfectfire on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @04:26PM (#12904084)
I went through a period of a few years where my medication was definitely helping a lot with the depression, but at the same time I no motivation or desire to do anything (I remember a few times wishing I had the desire to sit down and watch a TV show; I couldn't even bring myself to sit on the couch and stare at the TV) and I really couldn't feel emotions other than sadness and anger. The medication wasn't at fault because if I wasn't taking it, life was just non-stop intense sadness and still no desire to do anything.

My doctors sucked ass, but at least when I told them about my lack of desire they tried a bunch of different things to try and help. Lithium actually seemed to work quite well for me the first time I was on it (the second time, it didn't seem to have an effect and I can't remember why I stopped taking it the first time). It was me that eventually suggested trying anti-psychotics and I eventually suggested the one that has worked wonders for my depression and complete apathy, but they generally were willing to try anything I thought might work better than my current treatments.

It really felt like the doctors (the clinic I was at went through so many doctors. I think I had 6 in about 4 years) were just prescription writing machines and I was the one in charge of my well-being. It was up to me to do research and find things that might help me out and it kind of makes sense because how much do you think your doctor thinks about you in a month? They probably only think about your situation for the duration of your appointment and maybe a few minutes before the appointment, so maybe 45 minutes each month (if you see the doctor monthly). On the other hand, I'm thinking about my situation almost non-stop. I'm desperate for relief so I was spending multiple hours a day, maybe hundreds of hours each month, researching how I can get better. So it's no wonder that it was me that eventually figured out what medication to try that eventually made me mostly better.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by mistermann on Friday November 11, 2016 @02:02AM (#12928605)
Any chance you could describe your workflow and some of the better resources for self-diagnosis?
Re:One Road Out of Depression by perfectfire on Tuesday November 15, 2016 @10:21AM (#12958704)
Sorry, for the late reply. I didn't really have any workflow and I didn't self diagnose for depression, anxiety and narcolepsy (I did self-diagonose for hypothyroidism, I couldn't believe my doctor was denying it, but then I discovered online that this is a very common problem). I checked out the usual online resources. Wikipedia, Google search, crazymeds (no longer has forums), lots of Wikipedia, going over it again and again. The most useful information is what drugs are used for your condition off-label. Wikipedia might have that info, but it might not or just not be complete. Crazymeds would sometimes have more info. Sometimes you might only find out about an off-label use because some random internet stranger has tried it off-label. For their doctor it's one of those go-to backup meds if the more common ones fail, while your doctor is unaware it is even used off-label for that purpose. Another thing to look for is lists of medications of a certain type. Usually Wikipedia's list will be incomplete, crazymeds adds a few more and you discover even more through other sites via Google searches. And by checking the same sites over and over again I spotted completely new drugs that were listed hardly anywhere (one I tried was better than what I was on except for 2 months straight of watery diarrhea, the other I'm not really sure was better, but it was what I was taking prior to my current medication).

Out of all of the things I researched it ended up being atypical anti-psychotics, something I wanted to try because my mother had to be on them for a time. But we tried one drug, Abilify, (not the one that my mother was on), that I forgot why I stopped using, and then I found the other drug that I'm using now (Latuda) just from ads placed around the doctor's office. I looked the drug up online and I think looked at crazymeds to get more of a user's perspective and it sounded like the best atypical anti-psychotic with the best side-effect profile. So I suggested that and it worked out great. Then I was on an SNRI, Latuda, and Remeron (a tetracyclic anti-depressant I only used for insomnia caused by the SNRI) and I thought "this is a bit much", so with the agreement of my doctor I tried to get off of the Latuda, but after getting down to 20 mgs I felt bad for 3 or so days. So I went back to 40mgs and felt better almost immediately. This time I tried to get of the SNRI and I eventually did and still felt fine. And since I was off of the SNRI I didn't need Remeron to sleep anymore so I stopped that. Usually atypical anti-psychotics can be very powerful for depression as adjunct therapy along with an anti-depressant (Remeron + an AAP is colloquially called California Rocket Fuel). But I found it worked just great as monotherapy. So I didn't find what I'm on now through internet research, but I got the idea from my Mom's situation, the specific medication from ads that I further researched online (looking for technical information as well as anecdotal evidence and user experiences). Then I suggested cutting my medication down to where it is now.

I still don't have anything to treat anxiety, but I got a recommendation here on hacker news to maybe try Emsam and my doctor (who is way better than any of my previous doctors) had already mentioned trying an MAOI and Emsam is the only MAOI approved in the US that won't kill you if you eat cheese or other very common foods, so I was planning on trying that, but decided I didn't want to risk going down on the Latuda. Life has finally been good after a long time and I'd rather just deal with the anxiety than take a risk of feeling that bad again even for just a week or 2. Maybe I'll give it a try when work lightens up (probably never). There is one MAOI that is even better at not killing you for eating food and it's uses sound absolutely perfect for what I need, but it turns out to not be approved in the US. I have considered getting it online and self-medicating, but I don't feel that desperate right now. Maybe if I start to feel extremely panicked again I'll be motivated to self-medicate without doctor approval, but for now I'm finally okay.

Actually, I was talking to my sister-in-law and one of the drugs that their daughter takes is used for anxiety (Intuniv), but my doctor (after looking it up) said that that class of drugs helps anxiety more by helping with the secondary symptoms that are caused by anxiety rather than helping with anxiety itself (or something like that). And just last week I remembered that some anti-histamines are used for anxiety and so I'm going to mention that at my next appointment. I'm also going to see what users of Intuniv think of it, because if it worked for some people, then it's worth a try if I'm out of options and I hardly think it could make anything worse.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by curun1r on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @10:59AM (#12911147)
That the situation was better than when I was off the meds.

On the meds I was able to concentrate well enough to hold down a job. Concentration issues at work had been the primary reason I got treatment in the first place. And, like I said, I bought into that logic for a while. It was only once I realized that a full-blown meltdown would have been better than coasting through life with no enjoyment whatsoever that I felt comfortable discontinuing medication and trying to figure out another path.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by Swizec on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @10:55AM (#12901209)
I don't know what I was on the scale, but at some point the only thing keeping me aluve was the fear of inflicting a traumatic experience on my 8 years younger sister. Making an 8 year old discover her dead brother would be just a shitty thing to do.

The obly thing that finally helped, even after meds (I think) didn't do much, was a very solid "Fuck this, I don't want this anymore" and willing myself out of it by forcing myself to become a workoholic. It gave me interesting things to do and kept me distracted from the ultimate pointlessnes of it all.

Eventually the pointlessnes became my greatest asset. If nothing matters, then you can do anything right? Why give a shit about how a thing turns out, just try.

My psychiatrist at the time said that the meds gave me space to will myself out of it but who knows. I'm sure it went hand in hand.

On the other hand, it's been 13-ish years and too much leisure time still gets me sliding back towards a pit of despair. I'm probably not cured at all, just coping, and I'm likely to have to continue coping forever. Like a former drug addict or alcoholic.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by Broken_Hippo on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @04:16PM (#12904009)
In a way, I think your doctor was correct. The meds change the way you see life - supposedly - even if you didn't actually feel better. My unprofessional opinion is that LSD and other hallucinogens function about the same way - gets you out of your mindset enough so that your perspective is different when you get back in.
Re:One Road Out of Depression by Swizec on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @04:39PM (#12904178)
The meds[1] I had supposedly weren't made to change how you see life, but to numb your emotional response. You lose the ability to feel bad, but you also lose the ability to feel good. Debatable whether that's better or worse, really.

Fundamentally, I did have the meds and I did get better. Without a control, I can't say whether I got better because of the drugs, in spite of the drugs, or they had no effect. Considering they're approved meds, I can assume that statistically they work better than a placebo and do have a measurable effect. Whether they had causative effect my specific case is anyone's guess.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_i...

Re:One Road Out of Depression by ianvanness on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @12:56AM (#12906537)
In general, I'd be cautious recommending any type of medication, especially those involving serotonin, to others given how we as individuals react differently to them.

For example, the first time that I took SSRI's (a decade ago or so, recommended by my primary care physician), I had a negative reaction, and roughly a year of CBT was a much better solution (with a diagnosis of major depression). Fast forward to a few months ago, after being diagnosed yet again with major depression, this time by a psychiatrist, the SSRI's that were recommended and that I took triggered bipolar disorder--not an uncommon occurrence from what I now understand--and my current diagnosis.

All in all, it sounds like you may likely benefit from therapy (individual or group based) in addition to the meds that you're already taking (for what it's worth, it's helped me immensely).

Re:One Road Out of Depression by mistermann on Friday November 11, 2016 @02:06AM (#12928622)
Are there any "condensed" CBT resources you could recommend so I don't have to read this 600++ page book I've had sitting on the shelf beside me for 2 years?
Re:One Road Out of Depression by dcw303 on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @09:20PM (#12905631)
I am in no way trying to be snarky here, but can I ask what is meant by the phrase, "Capital D Depressed"? I've also seen someone use "Capital A Architect". Does the meaning change by capitalizing a word that isn't usually? Is this something to do with making it into a proper noun?

Sorry that this is off-topic but it's something that's bugged me for a long time. I've never understood it and it's very hard to google for an answer.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by bnjms on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @11:20PM (#12906013)
Capital D depression implies they were diagnosed with major depressive disorder or are certain they meet the requirements and are aware of the difference between sadness and Depression.

If you see this elsewhere it is context specific. But for example there is a difference between those who draw suburban house plans and those who plan museums.

Re:One Road Out of Depression by patrickdavey on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @12:48AM (#12906483)
Yip, this is what I meant.
Re:One Road Out of Depression by zumatic on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @11:22PM (#12906018)
I am not a doctor, but I think if you have been clinically diagnosed as depressed, you can call yourself "Capital-D depressed" -- IMHO, obviously.
Re:One Road Out of Depression by chrisper on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @11:07AM (#12901344)
Who did you contact first about the issue? A regular doctor, a psychologist, or a psychiatrist?
Re:One Road Out of Depression by ninenexus on Tuesday November 08, 2016 @11:57AM (#12901834)
I have it clinically as well. My experience went with Primary Care -> Psych Eval -> Psych Specialist. When you ask for the referral from your PC, I suggest requesting an office with a group of specialists that can bounce you to a better provider after your eval.