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Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by donquichotte on Monday November 07, 2016 @03:00AM (#12889572)
The energy problem is mentioned almost in passing, but it could be a deal breaker for this type of farming. Ventilation, heating and delivering light for photosynthesis require vast amounts of electrical energy, which, according to the article, comes mainly from diesel.

Averaged over a day, the sun provides > 12kWh per m^2 in farmable regions (estimated). It takes 70 days to grow cabbage, so for 1m^2 of cabbage that would amount to 168$ at 20cents/kWh.

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by tom_mellior on Monday November 07, 2016 @07:56AM (#12890637)
> The energy problem is mentioned almost in passing, but it could be a deal breaker for this type of farming.

Indeed. Some harsh places do have lots of essentially free energy, though: 100% of Iceland's electricity comes from a combination of geothermal and hydropower; 99% of Norway's from hydro (source: Wikipedia). I've been wondering for a while if they could use that for this kind of agriculture. Looks like it might work.

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by ogrisel on Monday November 07, 2016 @09:21AM (#12891136)
More than electricity, heating can be very cheap when your farm is on top of an active volcano.

In Iceland many greenhouses can grow tomatoes and bananas because they have direct access to hot water from the ground bellow.

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by sdx23 on Monday November 07, 2016 @08:49AM (#12890946)
Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by patall on Monday November 07, 2016 @03:36AM (#12889660)
It is expensive of course, else they would have been doing it for a long time.

But 12kWh/m^2 is for direct sunlight which cabbage etc. probably do not need, as they will have had some thoughts into that, also other hydroponic farms like in Singapore have the same problem. Also the light is tinted more violet and thus more efficiently usable for the plants. And I would not count with 20ct/kWh, as they probably pay industrial rates (though I have no idea how much that is over there).

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by donquichotte on Monday November 07, 2016 @04:43AM (#12889883)
You're right, industrial rates in Anchorage are around 11ct/kWh.

Also, it's possible to use LEDs tuned to the absorbtion spectra of chlorophyll, as you say.

If my back of the envelope calculations above are wrong by more than an order of magnitude, it might in fact be a commercially viable option for farming.

Is this [1] the Singaporean project you were refering to? They probably don't need heating, but nonetheless their quoted energy needs of 3$/month/structure are astonishingly low.

[1] http://permaculturenews.org/2014/07/25/vertical-farming-sing...

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by kw71 on Monday November 07, 2016 @07:02AM (#12890422)
A 400W arc lamp plus losses (possibly bringing the total to 600W) was enough to grow 3x3ft. of plants in soil. Plenty of this light was in the green area so not absorbed by plants. I have never seen lima bean plants grow so big or be so productive (4th harvest of the year in december.) I don't want to plant anything outside anymore after this.
Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by lightedman on Monday November 07, 2016 @11:08AM (#12892112)
"Plenty of this light was in the green area so not absorbed by plants."

This isn't true. The majority of light from an HPS light is green, yet huge crops are grown using that light all the time. Plants utilize almost every visible wavelength (and some invisible wavelengths) to some extent. LEDs generally just focus on the wavelengths that have been determined to be efficiently utilized. It is all however still 100% crop-dependent. Some plants simply hate LED lighting because of the missing spectrum (like my orchids.)

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by kw71 on Monday November 07, 2016 @08:21PM (#12896839)
Thank you for your insight. I thought that whatever makes chlorophyll green, filters the green light rendering it extraneous.
Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by lightedman on Friday November 11, 2016 @12:03PM (#12932384)
Gotta remember photon physics - a photon gets absorbed and then another photon is re-emitted at a lower wavelength. That is just the nature of thermodynamics, second law specifically.
Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by drieddust on Monday November 07, 2016 @08:31AM (#12890828)
Do you have a blog post or some pictures to share? I am trying to experiment with this on a small scale, but don't really know how small I can start.
Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by kw71 on Monday November 07, 2016 @08:36PM (#12896911)
I think the most remarkable part of my basement garden was that I did not put all that much effort into it. I got a Lithonia "high bay" 400 HPS fixture, reasoning that the reflector on a lamp made to be mounted high would focus the light in a smaller area. I just put a cord on it and hung it from a chain.

Except for the lamp, it is just like growing plants in pots outside, except there are 90% less insects and no hungry critters to snack on your crops.

I did some experiments with adjusting the lamp timer and long days didn't keep my beans from producing. Some plants want "seasons" but mine didn't seem to mind.

Now I have a wife, and a basement again, and we are both interested in starting a small "farm." LEDs are viable now and I want to look into this.

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by keenerd on Monday November 07, 2016 @10:36AM (#12891851)
"Space buckets" are probably the smallest scale you can easily do. With the red/blue grow LEDs you can get more usable light from a solar panel than straight sunlight can provide.

I've been looking for a change from outdoor gardening and a high density 1 m^2 indoor plot with 100W red/blue LED + 100W panel + automatic watering system sounds like a fun combination. Plus I can finally try growing tropical fruit and vegetables.

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by mmastrac on Monday November 07, 2016 @12:08PM (#12892661)
> With the red/blue grow LEDs you can get more usable light from a solar panel than straight sunlight can provide

This is interesting - do you have more information on it?

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by keenerd on Monday November 07, 2016 @03:08PM (#12894547)
I guess I messed up the math the first time around because I'm getting something different this time.

* 45% of sunlight is in the photosynthetically active wavelength range

* Solar cells are 20% efficient

* Red LEDs are 39% efficient and blue LEDs are 35% efficient

So no, I was kind of off base there. Straight sunlight is still 6x more energy for plants. But it is close! 40% efficient panels exist and my LEDs efficiency numbers were from 2012 so the gap might be smaller. If you do this calculation yourself, remember to ignore lumens. They are a human perceptual unit and are completely meaningless for plants.

Now for human-visible light it is a little different. With the most efficient solar cells and white LEDs we can do better than the sun. (Straight sunlight is 93 lumens per watt. A 40% solar cell and 250 lumen/watt LED outperforms the sun.) Maybe this is what I was thinking of.

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by drieddust on Monday November 07, 2016 @01:48PM (#12893689)
Thanks, this look interesting.
Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by lightedman on Monday November 07, 2016 @11:05AM (#12892089)
"Ventilation, heating and delivering light for photosynthesis require vast amounts of electrical energy, which, according to the article, comes mainly from diesel."

They must have forgotten about thermodynamics. Even with LED lighting, there's still a fair amount of generated heat to deal with. Also, with LED lighting, you reduce the amount of light actually required for growth as you focus on the more actively-utilized wavelengths of light.

As long as they use the diesel for controlling atmospherics, the rest of the place could easily be done on solar + sufficient battery bank. Arctic and Antarctic insolation is actually much higher than a good portion of the globe. [1]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Arctic#Solar_ra...

Re:Arctic farming: Town defies icy conditions with hydroponics by SixSigma on Monday November 07, 2016 @08:28AM (#12890813)
Doing it in a living space would make more sense. You already have to heat the place