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Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by mobiuscog on Friday November 04, 2016 @11:51AM (#12873521)
Effectively he's bringing back apprenticeships the way they should be.

It's far more useful than the current University arrangement, where 'everyone' gets to pay money to drink for 3 years (whilst studying) and then either drop back into the market looking for useful work, or go on to spend even more time making Academia seem worthwhile.

We used to be world leaders in engineering and production in the UK - now we just have students everywhere, with no jobs to go to as we import pretty much everything.

Okay - slightly over-dramatic, but at least Dyson is trying to do something useful.

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by tankenmate on Friday November 04, 2016 @12:07PM (#12873624)
In fact what he is setting up is very much similar to the German Mittelstand apprenticeship model; however to get similar results requires managers to change their ways, most apprenticeship trained staff in Mittelstand companies have a turnover of 2.7% (rather than up to 30% in entry level employees in US / UK).[0] This means that managers need to realise that you need good, technically solid training, and interesting work for these employees, a defined career path, and persistence and engagement rather than a fire them if I think they're even slightly off / not a good culture fit. A good cultural fit typically requires training too! Think of medieval type apprenticeships; not just on the job training but also training in how to be a productive, respectable adult.

If the Dyson IoT does these things that other employers claim they want (soft skills etc) but aren't willing to train or pay for then Dyson's new venture will probably succeed handsomely in the long run.

[0] http://www.economist.com/news/business/21606834-many-countri...

EDIT: fixed typos

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by walshemj on Friday November 04, 2016 @08:10PM (#12877281)
In a formal trade apprenticeship you signed (a binding contract) for a number of years and if they made you redundant you could sue your master for breach of contact
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by akhatri_aus on Saturday November 05, 2016 @03:08AM (#12878548)
Unfortunately today people are fickle and will change jobs if they're just paid more.

There's loyalty and cash. In Germany they still have control on their wages.

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by pjc50 on Friday November 04, 2016 @12:06PM (#12873616)
I think that's overstating it, there's a lot of engineering in the UK. It just has a very low media profile, because it either has a foreign name on the product (Nissan!) or doesn't sell to consumers.

A surprisingly large amount of it is in really unglamorous buildings in industrial estates outside cities other than London. Since the media have largely stopped bothering to leave the M25, it's invisible.

(I have a pet theory based on the car industry that the really toxic thing is British labour relations; there are successful small British companies, and successful large plants with foreign owners, but all the British-managed mass-employment industries collapsed in strikes and/or were looted by the directors like MG Rover.)

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by vkou on Friday November 04, 2016 @01:37PM (#12874366)
From the perspective of employees, if they didn't collapse in strikes, they would have collapsed for them due to outsourcing and automation (Which was the fate of manufacturing in America).
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by fdgdasfadsf on Friday November 04, 2016 @12:22PM (#12873736)
> I have a pet theory based on the car industry that the really toxic thing is British labour relations

I don't think that many people will disagree with you on this theory.

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by sgt101 on Friday November 04, 2016 @03:37PM (#12875350)
I will.

Every large company in the UK has a significant union. Not every large company has failed. Some company failures have been exacerbated by unions, british leyland being one example.

The really toxic thing is financial short termism. It used to be results in a year, which was very bad. Now they want results in under a quarter which is to value generation as acid to chalk.

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by fdgdasfadsf on Friday November 04, 2016 @08:45PM (#12877461)
Just to clarify my post was saying that the relation between union and and management is the problem - not the existence of the union. I ascribe this as much (if not more) to management than to the union.
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by crdoconnor on Friday November 04, 2016 @09:05PM (#12877536)
The strikes tended to come after the looting and the collapse of the companies due to mismanagement.

The systemic reason for this was the high value of the pound though. This dose of Dutch disease was avoided in Germany that has managed to repress the value of its currency in a variety of different ways.

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by dbbk on Friday November 04, 2016 @11:55AM (#12873543)
> It's far more useful than the current University arrangement, where 'everyone' gets to pay money to drink for 3 years

As shallow as it sounds though, it is bloody good fun.

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by arethuza on Friday November 04, 2016 @12:03PM (#12873596)
"pay money to drink for 3 years"

Or 4 years here in Scotland - which reminds me that the university department where I studied and worked was in the Grassmarket of Edinburgh - which is an exceptional location for boozing.

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by fillskills on Friday November 04, 2016 @12:06PM (#12873618)
The begs a question- why cant we have as much fun without paying through the nose
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by arethuza on Friday November 04, 2016 @12:35PM (#12873835)
Oddly enough the current situation in Scotland is that people from the rest of the UK do pay fees when attending Scottish universities but people from Scotland and the rest of the EU don't.
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by dbbk on Friday November 04, 2016 @04:06PM (#12875620)
Well when you consider the student loan you're technically not paying for it, the government is loaning you the money to do it, with no expectation that you will pay them back.
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by lima on Friday November 04, 2016 @11:59AM (#12873569)
Germany still has apprenticeships (we call it "Ausbildung") and it's great.
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by dmuneka on Friday November 04, 2016 @12:07PM (#12873627)
This is similar to the School Leaver programmes run by large accounting firms in the UK as well. You get paid a decent amount to get accredited whilst working for the firm. The programmes could take 6 years, but at the end of it, you would be a much more valuable employee than the person who drank away 3 years of their life! Plus you'd be a qualified accountant!

The downside is when all your mates are out having fun, you're being worked to the bone! Not really fun for an 18 year old.

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by dbbk on Friday November 04, 2016 @08:34PM (#12877413)
The downside isn't just missing out on the 'fun', but also all the soft skills you get. I feel like academia is only 50% of the university story. The rest is expanding your interests, learning independence, making friends with a more diverse set of people than you'd previously been exposed to. To me it makes you a more well-rounded person (and subsequently, employment candidate) than someone who just stuck their head in books.
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by walshemj on Friday November 04, 2016 @08:16PM (#12877312)
But will these employees face a glass ceiling in there later carrears.
Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by walshemj on Friday November 04, 2016 @08:15PM (#12877303)
Um no its bypassing the traditional hierarchy

Trade apprenticeship (typically started at 14 /15 ) Higher / Professional apprenticeship BSC/ BA in Engineering

You could join the path at any point or go through all 3 stages

Re:Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid by zeitgeb3r on Friday November 04, 2016 @04:22PM (#12875750)
Formula 1 is largely British.