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Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by skrebbel on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @08:15AM (#12853897)
Modern-day terrorism is a recruitment scheme. Any attack has the effect of increasing hostilities between groups. Imagine being a teenager with an identity crisis who happens to be part of a minority that the less intelligent half of your home country hates and despises. What group are you most likely to join? And what caused said hate and despise to grow? Right, terrorism.

More generally put: Virtually any organization has as its own survival as a high priority goal. Organizations on the extreme ends of ideology, any ideology anywhere, will benefit from increased hostilities in a population. It pushes more people to the fringes.

Terrorism is a time-honoured way to increase hostilities. The moderates lose, the the extreme ends on all sides win (whether you're Trump or ISIS).

Look at recent history and see how well it worked. American bombs on funerals, ISIS bombs on French crowds, it's all terrorism and it works wonders to keep the perpetrators powerful.

When Anders Breivik killed an island full of people, then-prime minister of Norway responded to like this:

"The Norwegian response to violence is more democracy, more openness and greater political participation"

This is the correct response to terrorism and we need a lot more of it. Once you see terrorism for what it is, a recruiting scheme, then it is obvious that "powerful language", "bias to action" and all that shit that politicians usually do, is very counter-effective.

Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by throwsincenotpc on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @08:21AM (#12853937)
> This is the correct response to terrorism

Breivik was an isolated incident, deadly but isolated non less. There is no correct response to terrorism. All terrorists are different. The IRA isn't the FARC or this or that palestinian groups or Al Qaida or Daesh. Sometimes there is a political solution, sometimes there isn't. There is no political solution with Daesh, these people want to exterminate their enemies, the only solution is to exterminate them before they do.

Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by reacweb on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @09:12AM (#12854306)
Probably, but we should exterminate them in the most human and democratic manner.
Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by DominikR on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @12:26PM (#12856509)
Your "correct response" to terrorism has been tried now for 8 years and it doesn't work, instead everything got worse.

The only way is to try to insulate oneself from these radicals by not letting them immigrate, or if it doesn't help pick an area controlled by the most vicious of these radicals (ISIS territory comes to mind) and give them a taste of what armageddon could look like so they'll learn an important lesson.

This has worked very well in the Chechen wars. The Russians tried negotiating, then they tried having a series of smaller military operations in order to take out their leaders. Then the Russians even conceded and gave them defacto independence, but It all didn't work. They instead went on to attack neighbouring Russian states and then even killed hundreds of Russian children in the Beslan terror attacks.

What did help though was Putins response completely levelling the Chechen capital Grozny. And I mean that literally because that's what they did. After that 99.99% of them became cooperative, in fact today most Chechens in Chechnya consider themselves fierce Russian patriots. I wonder why!

Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by skrebbel on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @02:25PM (#12857779)
Are you one of those paid Russian propaganda commenters people gossip about? Pretty cool to see this sort of stuff up close. I like how you slowly build up from some pretty widespread opinions to Chechens being "fierce Russian patriots".
Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by DominikR on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @03:09PM (#12858234)
Yes, Putin awards me with one loaf of bred per day for my patriotic deeds. Hillary is btw right, Putin and his evil empire even controls the FBI, the CIA, the US Air Force and Seaworld. (he just likes Orcas)

Edit: It is hilarious to me how the leftist are trembling about Putin, Trump, Le Pen and so on. What you guys don't get is that you are witnessing a massive, popular shift to the right throughout the West with a right wing ideology that is indeed partly influenced by Putin. Why? Because it is successful. This doesn't mean that they are controlled by Putin, they just share some ideas. You will by the way also experience this political shift in the Netherlands pretty soon.

Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by skrebbel on Thursday November 03, 2016 @03:20PM (#12867086)
> (he just likes Orcas)

Haha touché :-)

Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by dogma1138 on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @07:10PM (#12860236)
He is somewhat correct Russia basically installed a puppet government and through pretty brutal use of both the carrot and the stick managed to convince the populous that they were in the wrong.
Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by DominikR on Thursday November 03, 2016 @12:44AM (#12861654)
Yes they were in the wrong, they did ethnically cleanse 300k Russians from Chechnya before the Russian military even took steps against them.

And they proclaimed the Islamic Emirate of the Caucasus that was very similar to ISIS.

Also they didn't stop aggression after Russia lost the first Chechen war and they got their independence. They instead started attacking other non-Chechen territories in Russia that were peaceful until then.

The Russians were right to bomb the hell out of them. And we should do the same if these people don't stop attacking us.

Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by whoops1122 on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @09:10AM (#12854283)
I m not sure why you bring Trump into this, he has nothing to do with Terrorist organization, unless you are trying to say that American Govt is a form of terrorist groups, but in that case, Bush and Obama has been the head of that group for the past 16 years.
Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by skrebbel on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @09:41AM (#12854548)
I'm not sure I explained my comment right in that case. I bring Trump into this because he represents an anti-Muslim voice in the global media and this i significant for the point I'm trying to me. He simply a nice and current example of my little theory here.

Notably I do not mean to get involved in the American election debate.

The more power and attention Trump gets, the more Muslim youths in the West feel repressed and despised. This helps ISIS and similar organizations. It's not a stretch to imagine that more radical Muslim terrorism in the West, should it occur soon, will benefit Trump, and thus the cycle is complete. This is the kind of dynamic that moves people to the fringes, away from tolerance and moderate political opinions.

The awful acts that you mention that Obama and Bush were responsible for were not accompanied with a similar anti-Muslim rhetoric and that breaks this cycle, somewhat at least. This is why I did not bring them up. Note that strictly seen, only one side needs to actually do violence for a cycle like this to spin out of control. It's most important both sides need to commit to a powerful anti-the-other-people rhetoric.

So if you run an extremist organization looking for more power, all you have to do is pick and then provoke an enemy whose leadership you know will make your target audience / electorate feel very uneasy. This is what ISIS is doing and Trump, more than other American politicians, is helping them do it. It's been done many times before, think Rwanda or how Hamas got into power in Gaza.

I don't completely care about the exact definition of terrorism in this case - it's more the observation that acts of indiscriminate violence against people from a certain group puts people from that group up against the group the violence doers are from. Terrorism is one such kind of indiscriminate violence and usually the easiest to apply unless you're a nation state.

Re:Why terrorism doesn’t work (2002) [pdf] by whoops1122 on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @02:30PM (#12857826)
no this wasnt a election debate, thats why i failed to see why brought Trump into the conversation. the Hatred between Christian and Muslims can go back all the way to Crusaders. Regardless of how much Anti-Muslims comment Trump made, Radicals wont hate him more. The more neutral and logical comment Obama made, wont make Radicals like him better.

911 happened during Bush administration, but i m sure Bin Laden spent years during Clinton administration to plan. Point here being, who leads the supposed free world doesnt matter, Radicals will hate you. Its in their blood, flow though their veins though generations of unfair treatments from western world.

Look back how western world treated them, ever wonder why there are so many countries in mid east, and wonder why there are so many conflicts happens there every year?

I guess my points are that at this point, your simple existence is enough to provoke the radicals, regardless who is head of govt. Bangazhi didnt happen cause whole world like Obama better and Bush less. Hands of Jesus Christ are just as bloody, he sent just as much people to meet their maker.