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Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by cstejerean on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @11:57AM (#12846958)
I feel like I'm missing something. If you don't need MagSafe, USB-A or SD card slots and all you want is Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C including for charging, then what's wrong with the MacBook Pro?
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by bitshiffed on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:50PM (#12847633)
Exactly. This is a list of everything the new MacBooks already have. It sounds like the author should just get the new MBP.

Some of the listed attributes are just odd too: only 16GB RAM? No HDMI? No SD?

Guessing from the relative volumes of complaints that I've seen, a more useful list would probably be something comparable to the previous MBP, but with more RAM and a better CPU, and bonus points for a dedicated GPU.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by cvwright on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:19PM (#12847247)
Another way to look at this post: Here are some of the best laptops that you will be able to buy used for cheap in 12-18 months while the new Macbooks are still expensive.

I used this approach in my student days and it worked pretty well given the very limited budget.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by astrodust on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:43PM (#12848290)
The resale value on a MacBook is actually crazy high, so that's something to consider. I've heard stories of people buying Apple hardware at a steep student discount (20% or more) and re-selling it at the end of the year...for a profit.

Most PC laptops are worthless after 12-18 months of use. You either give them away or throw them out. If you buy a low-end system it's junk, and if you buy a high-end one, the only people looking for such a system would want to buy it new anyway, so you're stuck in a trap.

A MacBook often sells for a minimum of 50% of its purchase price if in good condition, possibly more depending on demand. The metal cases generally hold up a lot better than the plastic housing on less expensive laptops.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by mr_spothawk on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @03:43PM (#12849408)
> Most PC laptops are worthless after 12-18 months of use.

I'm on a Lenovo x220... it's plenty fast for most of my work. runs ubuntu like a champ. has, hands down, the best laptop keyboard that's ever been made. and only cost me $350, plus there's a strong aftermarket parts option.

Since i don't spend my time watching media, i don't have to worry about fancy monitors or display ports (though i could have gotten a Thunderbolt port).

This is a 5 year old laptop. The battery lasts at least 6 hours.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by astrodust on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @03:46AM (#12852918)
I'm not denying that these laptops work for people, but the resale value on a 5 year old Lenovo x220 is $0.

I'd say it has less value than five year old used underwear, but there's actually a market for that.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by mr_spothawk on Wednesday November 02, 2016 @04:10PM (#12858778)
I mean... there's definitely a market for the x220, and it's parts. Take a look on Amazon.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by gnicholas on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:53PM (#12848417)
Student discounts used to be much better 10-15 years ago. These days, the only really good deals are on older hardware—sometimes previous-generation. I've seen these units sold at campus bookstores of large universities (Stanford, UCLA) but never on the web.

The last time I bought a Mac with an education discount, the computer was about 7% cheaper, but the AppleCare was 30% off. Not a bad discount overall, but not enough in the hardware department to break even on a resale, even new in box.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by wyager on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:29PM (#12848118)
They lose value quickly because they're liable to break.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by smoser on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:47PM (#12848349)
The problem is that I can't buy anything from Apple that connects directly to it that isn't a dongle.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by LaSombra on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @02:26PM (#12848778)
You can plug the Google Pixel or the latest Samsung phones, for example.

The irony :-)

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by NEDM64 on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @04:54PM (#12849928)
The USB-C phone from Samsung got recalled because exploding.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by NEDM64 on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @02:22PM (#12848732)
Wrong. You don't need a dongle to connect nothing from Apple.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by bluedino on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @02:18PM (#12848692)
Anything from much of anyone, not just Apple.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by MatthiasP on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:40PM (#12848247)
The ultra shallow keyboard. I don't get how people would use that willingly for coding.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by AceJohnny2 on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:52PM (#12848410)
This is my biggest concern as well from trying one out, but apparently you get used to it. I currently use daily:

- a Microsoft Ergonomic Natural 4000 [1]

- A Kinesis Freestyle 2 [2]

- a Macbook Pro (2014)

That's a wide range of keyboard travels and force requirements, and I'm now comfortable with all. A friend got the new MBP and said he got used to its keyboard "within a day".

[1] https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/keyboar...

[2] https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/ That pic doesn't do it justice. With the risers that come with the "VIP kit", you can tilt and angle it to your comfort.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by _cal on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:49PM (#12848359)
I have the baby Macbook 12" that I bought specifically for programming on the go. It took a bit to get used to, but now I love that keyboard.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by santaclaus on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:50PM (#12848381)
I prefer shallow keyboards for coding -- large travel keys drive me crazy.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by v512 on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:39PM (#12847501)
Its very expensive for what it offers.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by snowwrestler on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:47PM (#12847605)
Depends on how you value the features and build quality of the case. Apple laptop cases are extremely expensive (each one is individually machined from solid aluminum), but the result is a top-notch combination of strength to weight ratio.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by TheSpiceIsLife on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:25PM (#12848059)
I've bought three Apple laptops, and will probably continue to buy them. But....

Machining a laptop chassis from solid aluminium isn't what makes Apple laptops expensive. Sure, it does add to the cost.

What makes Apple laptops extremely expensive is the ridiculous mark-up Apple charge.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by astrodust on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:50PM (#12848380)
You call it "ridiculous", but it's not like they charge you a bunch of money and give you nothing. You get a single vendor for operating system and hardware, free support at their retail stores, and free updates to the operating system.

People these days whinging about "extremely expensive" have no idea. Computers used to be stupidly expensive and ridiculously slow, no matter the brand. We've been spoiled by these vendors willing to sacrifice everything to slash costs and margins.

Do you want a good keyboard, a great trackpad, and a durable metal housing? Be prepared to pay more than you would for some system built out of what was salvaged from the garbage bins of Dell's factory.

Every single one of these alternatives listed is over $1000, and that segment of the PC market is tiny. Most get all dizzy at the thought of spending more than $500 on a laptop, that's what the industry's conditioned people to think.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by NEDM64 on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @02:25PM (#12848764)
If you go to the "good stuff" like Toshiba Tecra, Lenovo ThinkPad (except they are worse nowadays), etc... you'll see how expensive they are
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by photogrammetry on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:34PM (#12848186)
It doesn't matter how well they machine the aluminum if the case is going to separate on the slightest impact because it's so flimsy [2].

100% of the "extremely expensive" machining processes are done by robots. They're just marked up 300-400% by Apple because, well, they love money.

[2] https://discussions.apple.com/___sbsstatic___/migration-imag...

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by snowwrestler on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:48PM (#12848355)
I dropped my Macbook Air, which is quite thin and light, from about 5 feet up onto a tiled bathroom floor. It hit on a corner at the thinnest end. The corner bent a few mm and the lid doesn't quite close correctly. But it woke from sleep no problem and I have used that laptop for more than 2 years since.

It would be great if Apple could engineer a completely indestructible 3 lb laptop. I'm pretty darn pleased with the durability for its portability.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by photogrammetry on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @02:02PM (#12848527)
It would be great if they engineered such a laptop. Since they don't want to try, though, other manufacturers are doing it for them. Those companies are also taking pretty solid amounts of their market share, too. [4]

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12843775

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by snowwrestler on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @02:50PM (#12848992)
As someone who owns both an Asus and a Mac, the build quality is not comparable.

The Asus was $150, though, so it's not a big deal if it breaks easily.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by wyager on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:30PM (#12848124)
Most of the laptops in the linked article are in the same price range, and most of the brands listed have quality issues.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by TruthSHIFT on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:41PM (#12847524)
Are there other laptops that offer what Apple offers?
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by NEDM64 on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @02:25PM (#12848769)
No.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by wffurr on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:01PM (#12847013)
Only thing I can tell is missing from the author's list of preferences is "7th generation Core i7 CPU" which the 4th pick in the list also lacks.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by bungle on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:20PM (#12847257)
And that preference is a weird one as those 6th generation processors in Macbook Pro's are a way better than already released 7th generation CPUs. Also the integrated GPU is better.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by icebraining on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:11PM (#12847145)
Reading the earlier post, it seems the extra need is an escape key, which probably wasn't explicitly written since, you know, it's not exactly a differentiator among non-Apple laptops.

http://www.onebigfluke.com/2016/10/lamenting-progress.html

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by bslatkin on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:57PM (#12847732)
OP here: For the record I'm a Sublime / Emacs user. From this earlier post: "I philosophically disagree with the idea of looking at your keyboard to comprehend its interface."
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by comex on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @01:50PM (#12848374)
I generally agree that you shouldn't have to look at the keyboard, but I'm currently hoping that peripheral vision plus muscle memory will be enough to make up for the lack of tactile feedback when it comes to commonly used applications. (I haven't tried out the new MBP yet, and I'm going to do so before ordering, but that's my hope.)

In return, I'd get the ability to use slide controls, and have both system controls (volume, brightness) and application-specific ones directly on the bar rather than having to choose Fn for one - which makes for terrible ergonomics. Plus, Touch ID.

But then, I don't care about the Esc key because I've had Caps Lock mapped to it for years.

Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by keithly on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:17PM (#12847213)
RAM limited to 16GB LPDDR3, not upgradable
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by pwinnski on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:44PM (#12847574)
The article states that he only wants 16 GB anyway, so I'm a little puzzled, too.
Re:Realistic alternatives to Apple computers by hyperbovine on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @12:59PM (#12847755)
Didn't you get this week's memo? Apple will vanish into a puff of smoke early next year. Discuss.