The jingoism in the US is always surprising. Why is the anthem even playing in a national game? Why should the players even be forced into this display of subservience before doing their job? It's not like they're representing the national team! What a weird society.

It is weird. I think it is in part because America is the first enlightenment nation. We have no blood or deep history binding us together, so superficial and melodramatic shows of solidarity become much more important in generating a stable sense social identity. Think of it as a bunch of deracinated individuals attempting to say "see, 'we' are a 'we'!"

The puritans were virtue-signallers par excellance, so that probably also flows through to what you see today.

What do you mean by "first enlightenment nation"? I haven't heard this before. I thought the ideas of the enlightenment were first in various European countries but I don't think that's what you mean?

My parse is, the USA is founded on documents and philosophy instead of the personal power of a string of hereditary leaders and/or their overthrowers. I also feel the comment ignores the nuance of the fact that France's claim to be "An" enlightenment nation, if France wanted to make such a claim, is not so different than that of the USA just because France might be on its 5th Republic. How long has the L/E/F motto been the motto of France or French citizens anyway? The other side of that nuance being that perhaps French nationalism has a different flavor because it could be about different forms of nation at different times.

Built on the foundations of the enlightenment? Without the historical baggage of Europe? Monarchies, feudalism, etc.

I think it is fascinating that you see such symbolism in standing with hand over heart for the playing of the national anthem and also point to the disgust for players opting to kneel as a reason people are not watching football.

That's the symbolism they are invoking when they kneel! They do not want to show a solidarity that they do not believe exists. That people would give up watching football over it sort of supports their side of the argument.

If you are curious about why it's played, here is a good article: http://mentalfloss.com/article/22150/why-do-we-sing-national...

The short answer for why it is still played is "tradition". There's a lot of things in a lot societies that are "weird" for the same reason.

Thanks for the link. Often missed: the anthem at baseball games was originally sung by the crowd, spontaneously while a brass band played on the field.

This seems a lot more fun to me than the current (awkward) practice of standing there trying to look more serious than the guy next to you, hand over heart, while some ostentatious diva who lost the last Eurovision contest belts out yet another over-dramatized and over-personalized performance.

The current incarnation of this tradition needs to die for aesthetic reasons, if not political ones.

There are plenty of people here in the US that think it's just as strange. I don't get it either.

It's simply tradition. I've been to a couple of sports events in the U.S. and it doesn't seem overtly nationalistic or jingoistic.

God Save America in the 7th inning stretch post 9/11 couldn't get more jingoistic.

No Fun League: Why all the celebration bans? Come on. It's ridiculous.

Is it a catch? This seems to change every week.

No more hits: It's good for players' health, but maybe the players should change their style of play and not go up for that super high pass across the middle and show some self-preservation rather than penalizing a defender.

Reviews: this can be reviewed but this cannot. Why? If the ultimate goal is to get it right, everything should be reviewable.

Officiating: Tumbled to terrible quality recently. Even the league, which is loathe to criticize its officials, has admitted that officials have screwed up that changed the outcome of several games. This is historically bad.

Games in far off lands: This needs to end. Now.

Preseason: Stop making ticketholders buy these worthless games. Should be 2 preseason games. NFL doesn't make the networks carry preseason games, why should season ticketholders foot the bill?

Teams moving around for money: Talk about fan alienation.

Teams moving around for money: I couldn't agree more. I was recently living in STL and this left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I'm a Packer fan who will never have to worry about this. It really pulls to the forefront that these teams are purely profit-driven, which in professional sports is a given, but gives the appearance of excessive greed. In some ways it's the antithesis of all of those feel-good sports movies where they play through adversity to overcome.

I'd be interested in knowing how these sorts of stunts play out in a more macro sense. As a whole, it may be a net profit for the NFL, but I wonder if it's more of a medium-term win.

The Rams moving to St. Louis didn't sit too well with this native of Los Angeles. Roman Gabriel! Fearsome Foursome! Come on!!!

Also, Thursday night football is trash. The matchups are bad and everyone hates the short week.

I don't watch football, but the rams going to LA and NOT THE RAIDERS. WHAT?!

The Rams have spent half their history in Southern California, them moving back isn't weird.

Literally no one cares about the anthem protests. They don't even show them during the games.

The big problem is that a lot of star players were injured at the beginning of the season - Brady, Romo, Dez Bryant, JJ Watt, RG III, Adrian Peterson, etc. Just so many injuries this year.

And we have millennials doing a lot more online games, so we have that competition now.

That's not what the polls say.

Here's one: https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/poll-m...

But yea, I'm sure it's seems like it wouldn't matter.... to people still watching.

You can ignore that poll, since it doesn't account for likely viewers that turned away from watching.

Brady was suspended, not injured. But your point is still valid.

Yes. All the suspensions/injuries/retirement (Peyton) aren't helping ratings.

The audience wants their stars.

I knew I was missing one when I was thinking about this, and that was Peyton. Thanks