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Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by Houshalter on Saturday October 29, 2016 @11:22AM (#12824318)
Yes that's probably why the industrial revolution didn't happen. There's a good comment below that explains other societal reasons why the industrial revolution didn't happen, like the lack of contract law and investors.

I also read a great theory once (but I can't find it again through google!) that the industrial revolution really required the invention of the cannon first. Building an efficient steam engine in roman times would have been incredibly expensive and dangerous, because of their primitive metal technology. The cannon created a tech race between nations to develop more/better/cheaper/lighter cannons. Which resulted in better metal working tech. Once you can make big pieces of metal that can withstand and direct the pressure created from explosions, steam engines aren't too far away.

But Heron's invention was still useful, and would have been the fastest moving thing ever built up to that time. Perhaps it could have been adapted to military applications, like flinging tons of rocks really fast at high speed?

Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by mturmon on Saturday October 29, 2016 @11:55AM (#12824484)
The thing you can't recall in your second paragraph sounds like the sort of "chain of inventions" that James Burke used to explain on the old BBC series Connections. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series) )

See in particular episode 6 in the original 1978 series (just going by the summary on Wikipedia).

Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by stinkytaco on Saturday October 29, 2016 @06:43PM (#12826887)
I'll chime in here to add The Day the Universe Changed, on PBS. Less "invention" specific and broader, about how certain concepts shifted us. It has also aged better, in my opinion. Connections, especially its last episode, seems rooted in a certain place and time.
Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by fapjacks on Sunday October 30, 2016 @01:47AM (#12828349)
All of those Connections shows with James Burke (Connections, Connections^2 and Connections^3) were totally phenomenal to me when I saw them and absolutely sparked my interest in inventing. I still occasionally watch the original Connections series, having downloaded them to my collection.
Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by dredmorbius on Saturday October 29, 2016 @08:54PM (#12827447)
Steam engines need fuel. There's no coal (to speak of) in Italy.

Europe's coal belt starts in Scotland, runs through England, into France (and a nubbin in northern Spain / Portugal), Germany, and Silesia.

Oddly enough, the first countries to industrialise were, in order, England (which wasn't busily falling to pieces and/or fighting off invaders), then (after they'd stopped falling to pieces and/or fighting off invaders) France and Germany. They remain the heart of the European economy, a century and a half later.

The third great set of coal deposits were in the United States, though that was a country that also had tremendous forests, more readily accessed (and frequently local to where energy was needed). Coal consumption didn't exceed wood as a fuel until the 1880s. The US also benefited from oil, and was the world's leading extractor of oil from the 1860s to the 1950s. Having first developed coal, iron, railroads, canals, and steamships, the US could usefully transport that oil from the remote rural regions in which it was found (Titusville, Pennsylvania, Ventura, California, Spindletop, Texas) to the urbanised regions (New York, Philadelphia, Boston) where it was used.

The bootstrapping of technology was itself a really interesting story -- gunpowder, metallurgy, iron, fuels, steel, electricity, and prime movers, most especially diesel and gas turbine engines. See Vaclav Smil (Energy in History) and Manfred Weissenbacher (Sources of Power) for more on this.

(The fourth coal belt is in China.)

Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by Houshalter on Sunday October 30, 2016 @11:02AM (#12830150)
As you mention yourself, the US got by using mostly wood until relatively late in the second industrial revolution. There is still a lot of useful energy in wood. Even ancient rome burned a ton of wood for heat and their own industries. It would have been more expensive and less sustainable sure, but I think it would have been enough to start. There is also wind and water power which was utilized a lot during the start of the industrial revolution.
Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by dredmorbius on Sunday October 30, 2016 @02:36PM (#12831438)
Wood is sustainable until it isn't.

Rome and the Mediterranian had a long history of deforestation, going to Egypt and Sumer. The first story, the Epic of Gilgamesh, can be read as a story of ecological limits and deforestation.

Roman heating systems, hypocausts, had voracious fuel appetites. I'm not finding a solid reference but believe one could consume a ton or more of wood daily. That was imported from distant locations.

Early industrial windmills and water wheels typically produced 10 - 20 kW of power, with perhaps a few thousands throughout Europe, for a total power capacity of a few tens of MW. The power availed by coal and oil is thousands and millions of times this.

U.S. woodfuel consumption wasn't sustainable, and hasn't increased from levels of the late 19th century.

Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by Houshalter on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @07:09AM (#12844671)
I'm trying to say that it would be possible to start some industrial processes and automation. A water mill is enough to power a lot of machinery, and they could have become more efficient as they developed the technology. There is a huge amount of energy in moving water and air.
Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by taejo on Saturday October 29, 2016 @01:09PM (#12824955)
I've heard it said that the bicycle basically needed the car, despite seeming to be much simpler: accurate mass production of ball bearings, chain drives, and pneumatic tires were all driven by car manufacturing but needed for really practical bicycles.
Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by stevekemp on Saturday October 29, 2016 @02:40PM (#12825580)
> I've heard it said that the bicycle basically needed the car

Interestingly our roads were built with bicycles in mind:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/1...

Many similar sources such as:

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/12/the-secret-history-of...

Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by Someone on Saturday October 29, 2016 @03:31PM (#12825859)
But bicycles are useful on their own (possibly more so in a world where cars do not exist), so the existence of bicycles alone could easily have driven innovation.

In fact, Dunlop invented the pneumatic tire for his son's tricycle and they were initially used for bicycles (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boyd_Dunlop#Pneumatic_t...)

Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by dredmorbius on Saturday October 29, 2016 @09:18PM (#12827535)
Bicycles are hugely useful -- they were the first mode of transport that was affordable to an ordinary person (though relatively about as expensive as a car today), and didn't require feeding, shoding, tackle, or stabling. With a bike, a person could move beyond 3 miles in an hour, or get to and from a railroad station allowing for much longer commutes, visits, or recreational travel.

As of the late 19th century, horses consumed about 25% of the grain production of the US. Much of that was to provide drayage of people and goods to and from railroad stations or train yards.

Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by RbrtM on Saturday October 29, 2016 @09:29PM (#12827573)
The first mode of transport affordable to an ordinary person was probably an animal like a donkey or an ox, etc..
Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by dredmorbius on Saturday October 29, 2016 @10:21PM (#12827775)
Not within an urban context, and not much elsewhere. A donkey or ox required grazing access -- which meant either owning your own land or having access to a commons, as well as a stable. Bicycles, despite many other issues, don't poop.

A horse was a major capital investment. And a donkey can't carry all that much weight -- a light adult, perhaps, but only just.

The US horse population in 1915 was 20 million, contrasting with about 100 million people. Keep in mind that most of those horses were in commercial use -- drayage, farm traction (a large combine would be drawn by 40 horses), etc.

Numbers for England/UK are harder to come by, but a Google Answers thread gives 3.3 million for late Victorian Britain, and 14 million in Europe in 1800, the latter against a human population of 203 million.

The typical person, or family, owned zero horses.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=144565

http://www.geohive.com/earth/his_history1.aspx

Though you raise an interesting question: what was ownership of draught animals throughout time, and how did that compare with bicycle sales in, say, the US, England, France, and Germany from 1880 - 1920 or so. Keeping in mind that mass private automobile ownership wasn't really a thing until the 1950s, even in the US.

Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by qbrass on Saturday October 29, 2016 @08:13PM (#12827287)
Ball Bearings and Chain drives were mass produced for industrial machines, and saw use in bicycles before automobiles. Pneumatic tires as already mentioned were invented for bikes and made their way to automobiles.
Re:Why It Took So Long to Invent the Wheel (2012) by WalterBright on Saturday October 29, 2016 @08:20PM (#12827326)
The industrial revolution requires coordination on a vast scale, and a lack of bureaucracy that can arbitrarily block it. Hence its emergence in free market countries.