This is the most interesting point I've seen raised today. How can you lock developers into your OS with Xcode and then not give them a viable, portable option. If they could just beef up the '12 MBP I'd be soo happy.

How is it not viable?

16 GB memory for starters

If you can't develop with 16gigs something else is wrong.

go tell google

Can you tell me you usage scenario if you are a developer for iOS, what exactly is prohibiting you from using this new generation of MacBook pros? I have not used my USB or hdmi ports on my 15" retina for years, the only port I am using is the thunderbolt to connect 4K display, but the only time I am using it is when I am at my desk, attaching a dongle to the desk monitor is quite easy and solves the only possibly issue I might have...seems like most people who complain here are just trying to find a reason to complain

It's not that im prohibited from developing, its that the value proposition of a macbook pro is going down and I have no other option other than a macbook pro, all these changes are detrimental to me and I have no alternative.

Can't use (now) old magsafe, can't simply connect hdmi to current screen without an adaptor, yubikey will be useless and will need a replacement, adaptor for headphones because I use hd598s and will never use wireless headphones, need to get used to new f keys when using vscode shortcuts when meddling with non ios or react native code.

Nothing is a death knell, but feels like they're choosing a death by 1000 paper cuts with these incremental changes.

I honestly can't point to a gain except maybe able to click on a emote faster using the magic bar and other odds and sods that a magic bar offers.

> adaptor for headphones because I use hd598s and will never use wireless headphones

The MBP has the standard 3.5mm headphone jack.

> I honestly can't point to a gain except maybe able to click on a emote faster using the magic bar and other odds and sods that a magic bar offers.

You're sounding awfully negative about something you haven't even used. For example, the F-key shortcuts you mentioned, if Microsoft is smart they'll add Touch Bar support so you get even better shortcuts than having to remember which F-key does what with what modifiers.

> yubikey will be useless and will need a replacement

The whole world is slowly moving to USB-C, this had to happen eventually. The fact that Yubikey doesn't have a version that supports USB-C is their own fault. And in fact 3 months ago they had a whole post about how they have a prototype but don't want to bother actually bringing it to market yet (https://www.yubico.com/2016/07/yubikey-route-usb-c/). I sure hope that today's announcement makes them realize that they do need to get off their ass and release the USB-C version.

What's your current set up? Is there something about what you're using now that prevents you from continuing to use it going forward?

Macbook pro (2014) and a windows desktop.

3 screens.

usually connect 2 screens to my macbook (hdmi & display port) along with my k70 keyboard and my g600 mouse.

Im mainly good, I keep my F keys when im at my desk, only when im mobile and about they go and never done any heavy lifting through that way.

I don't understand how people are treating this as if im the grim reaper taking a swing at the macbook pro 2016.

It's just many different annoying things that I don't see the positive side to losing, can someone point to the positive side?

I don't think you're the grim reaper :) Personally, I'm reacting to statements you've made like:

"there is no real option if you're developing for IOS"

"other macbooks don't seem the right type for heavy multitasking"

"the value proposition of a macbook pro is going down"

Those read like universal absolutes rather than nuanced criticisms. You do make a point with respect to adapters. I've been using Apple laptops since my first G3 (that's not me trying to display street cred, just trying to establish that I've been through a lot of different port changes over the years).

And that's why I asked about your current setup. If you're currently developing for iOS and it's working fine, then one option is to keep using what you have. If you have a legitimate reason to need to upgrade, i.e., developer tools you need to use are no longer supported for your machine, that's a legitimate complaint. If you want a new machine because you want the new hotness (and hey, that can be fun), but the new hotness doesn't match your expectations, well, I'm sorry you're disappointed. That however is different from "no real option" or "not the right type".

Another option for you to consider is buy one of the current gen machines or a refurbished model. Might be a compromise that works for you.

Thank you for your insight (G3 is a long time), genuinely helpful and levelled my head out!

I never meant them in absolute terms, it's just me venting that im missing reasons to want this version (after always wanting a mac after any keynote in the past but never being able to afford when back then) after waiting a little while and just disappointed this time around.

That G3 was a beast :) Swappable batteries, drives, all kinds of stuff. And so heavy!

Glad to share my thoughts, and glad to help. I can understand the disappointment, too. I wish there were some MagSafe-like feature. I like the larger trackpad. I like the opportunities the Touch Bar provides, though I will miss the physical escape key and the hardware volume keys and brightness keys. Force Touch for the Touch Bar would be great. I'd also like to see more RAM available. But, that's not what's available now, and what I've got is good enough for at least another couple of years.

Hope you can find a good solution for your next system!

> If you want a new machine because you want the new hotness (and hey, that can be fun), but the new hotness doesn't match your expectations, well, I'm sorry you're disappointed.

This wouldn't be so much of a problem if Apple would just update their MBP lineup regularly. The real issue will crop up in ~2 years, where the only option will still be to get the current (by then outdated) MBP for probably the same price as it is now.

For me, 16GB ram and missing ESC key are big limitations. I think a lot of frustration here is if your time is money (aka a professional) and you have a big budget, you are still stuck with general consumer level hardware. There aren't any other options from Apple right now, and likely not for at least another year.

I love my Apple watch, iPad, and iPhone...but those are all "best of breed" imho. I was waiting to purchase the Macbook Pro, but it's pretty mediocre by my measure.

I have a hard time believing that you're an iOS developer, given that you don't know it's called "iOS" and not "IOS", or that you think the desktop is called an "Imac".

In any case, as an iOS developer, the new MBP actually looks really great. The only issue is the need to buy a $25 cable to plug my iOS device into the computer, but if I can afford to buy a brand new computer to work with my pretty new iPhone 7, I can afford to buy a cable (or more accurately, my employer can afford to buy one). Besides that, the only other issue I can see someone raising is the 16GB RAM limit, but I don't see how that's a problem for iOS development. My current MBP has 16GB of RAM and that's never been a limiting factor.

Edit: I actually don't need to buy a new cable, since my external display has USB, as does my keyboard, but I do need a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adaptor for my display (since I probably can't convince my employer that I need a 5k display).

I call my windows desktop a desktop and an Imac desktop an Imac or 'imac' because that's how I make the distinction because I have used Windows for the majority of my life, don't care as long as people know what I mean when Im saying something.

Im not some elitist 'iOS' developer, I don't even put 'iOS' first on my CV yet I enjoy it and even had put out an app related to a hobby as a CV filler and for the fun of it.

None that doesn't lessen that I'd rather use different hardware but cant.

> Im not some elitist 'iOS' developer

...huh? If you develop for iOS, you're an iOS developer. Where does elitism come in?

As for the computer, I wasn't complaining that you didn't call it a "desktop", I was trying to point out that the computer is called an iMac, not an Imac. Do you also call your iOS device an Iphone? And do you call Xcode xCode? These kinds of careless mis-capitalizations are a strong sign that you don't actually do much with the platform. And if you're not a serious iOS developer, then why are you trying to argue that the new computer isn't good for iOS developers?

I feel getting angry about capitalisation of a product (which some may see as being a 'grammar nazi') is very much a sign of elitism.

Looking down on me for not being a 'serious' IOS developer therefore implying I cant have opinion and voice it is doubly so.

It is not even remotely elitism to say "you don't have much experience doing iOS development, therefore you're not qualified to talk about what is or is not good hardware for doing iOS development on".

I can discuss and hold and opinion then voice it in this thread, which I did which has given me useful advice and perspective, you can just say i'm wrong and point out why possibly anchored by pointing out your experience.

Don't go low and pick on grammar then imply the person you're in discussion can't have an opinion in this hacker news thread because I'm not as serious as you and even previously calling me a lair due to my grammar not being satisfactory.

You've clearly got experience that can help people, instead of trying to make people feel small, hows about using it as an anchor for real points in a discussion and then people like me can learn something good instead of learning how to inspire this torrent of vitriol bouncing back and forth.

Good luck on your coding endeavours.

Vitriol? I think you're taking this thread far too personally.