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Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by rgbrenner on Monday October 24, 2016 @10:57AM (#12779354)
we have paid 90,000 ... and received 18,000

But have you seen how they gouge the uninsured? I was in a minor bike accident last year and I had a 5k deductible. Just had an ambulance ride and got checked out at the emergency room. The bill was $6000 without insurance, which was reduced to $1500 with insurance.

Hospitals have such poor cost accounting.. they basically make something up if you're uninsured. It completely eliminates going without insurance. The charges would be outrageous.

Edit: The 4x multiple in my bill isn't anywhere near the worst. There are hospitals that charge up to 12x (so 1500 turns into 18000): https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/why-s... Add to that, hospitals won't tell you what something will cost up front... so you get to find out when they send you the bill.

Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by ptero on Monday October 24, 2016 @02:11PM (#12781259)
To me, the #1 benefit of health insurance is not the insurance (i.e., swapping the cost of the unlikely, major expenses for a regular constant payment). It is price negotiation with service providers.

I would love to be able to get, from my insurer, a low cost option just for this: patient pays 100% of their standard negotiated rates. I go to the same network, they pay the doctor and bill me for the payment. Premiums just need to cover their admin cost plus some insurance that kicks in if I do not pay.

Doctors should not care -- they still get the same $$ from the same source the same way. Catastrophic coverage can be arranged separately, but the above schema I think would provide much of the current insurance benefits at the much lower cost.

Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by TheSpiceIsLife on Monday October 24, 2016 @02:49PM (#12781645)
provide much of the current insurance benefits at the much lower cost.

The benefits of health insurance aren't those your alluding to here.

The benefits of health insurance are the flow of money from your bank account to the insurer.

Your premiums are going up 74% next year, what are you going to do about it? Complain on an internet forum. Go ahead.

Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by PaulHoule on Monday October 24, 2016 @11:19AM (#12779560)
It's also an issue for meds.

There are plenty of generic meds that cost less than $10 with the discount negotiated by the insurance company but cost upwards of $100 if you don't get the discount.

The calculation that "you get nothing with a high deductable plan" is not entirely accurate if you take these into account.

Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by maxerickson on Monday October 24, 2016 @11:29AM (#12779659)
There are free pharmacy benefit managers that will get you similar negotiated discounts. There are also store programs like Walmart's $4 drugs https://www.walmart.com/cp/1078664 .

(that's what lots of drug discount cards are, you get a negotiated price instead of the cash price)

So having a PBM price is an included detail of insurance plans, I'm not sure how useful it is (I expect the formulary used by cheap insurance ends up similar to the free stuff).

Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by germinalphrase on Monday October 24, 2016 @11:20AM (#12779575)
I had a similar experience. Burned the sole of my foot. Twenty minutes talking to a nurse at the hospital - two pain pills and the assurance that it was below the threshold for a third degree burn - and I walked out with a $3000 bill. They eventually knocked it down to $2500 and gave me a no-interest payment plan.
Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by sosuke on Monday October 24, 2016 @11:36AM (#12779737)
I've had uninsured hospital visits and when I called to pay they were shocked and surprised. I think they jack up the price so they can write it down because they don't expect to get paid.
Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by toomuchtodo on Monday October 24, 2016 @12:09PM (#12780082)
No. The price is jacked up because insurance companies negotiate down, so providers have to price anchor high in order to receive payment at a sustainable level. They can't offer you a cash rate without hell from insurance companies, so you encounter the uninsured negotiation dance.
Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by sosuke on Monday October 24, 2016 @02:26PM (#12781412)
They should just do the transparency shift and say everyone pays X and there is zero wiggle room.
Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by toomuchtodo on Monday October 24, 2016 @02:26PM (#12781420)
Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by gozur88 on Monday October 24, 2016 @07:12PM (#12783737)
The problem is insurance companies can negotiate bulk rates, but it's actually illegal for people to get together in a group and do the same thing without the insurance part.

What's also annoying is you can't determine ahead of time what something is going to cost, so even when it's not an emergency you can't shop around.

Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by sedachv on Monday October 24, 2016 @02:59PM (#12781742)
For anyone interested, David Belck has some good lectures on how medical procedures get billed and how insurance (doesn't) work in the United States: https://www.youtube.com/user/davidbelk46/videos
Re:Sputtering Startups Weigh on U.S. Economic Growth by raybb on Tuesday October 25, 2016 @12:51AM (#12785382)
This guy is excellent I wish this were higher up in the thread