Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by jandrewrogers on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @10:46AM (#12734900)

To some extent, this is a choice many Americans intentionally make. There are many jobs that offer European-like benefits, working hours, and employment stability in the US (e.g. Federal government jobs and some companies) but these are frequently viewed as undesirable -- it is not a first choice for many people if circumstances offer something better. The tradeoffs tend to be similar to Europe if you take one of these jobs. Lower pay, less opportunity for advancement (these kinds of environments tend to have promotions that are more seniority based), and you have to work with more people that put in the minimum effort required.

The concept of "quality of life" goes beyond the hours you work to also include having the opportunity to go after your ambition, if you have one. Culturally, I think one of the ways the US and Europe differ is that Europe imposes an environment designed to limit expressible ambition to the lowest common denominator, whereas US culture allows much greater variance in ambition. Or to put it another way, if it is your nature, it is easier to be ambitious in the US and easier to be non-ambitious in Europe. But all other things being equal, I prefer having the opportunity to be ambitious. Americans are not required to be ambitious, but many Americans take the opportunity nonetheless.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by embiggen on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @01:21PM (#12736689)

    > To some extent, this is a choice many Americans
    > intentionally make.

Uhm, to what extent do they have a choice? Be super poor or work hard. Hmm..yes those are delightful "options" to get to "select".

But seriously, I don't see a realistic choice for most people. To have any decent level of security and stability in our lives, most of us have to work our asses off!

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by RandomName2020 on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @10:53AM (#12734971)

> (e.g. Federal government jobs and some companies) but these are frequently viewed as undesirable

Federal and government (city, state etc.) jobs (perhaps excluding IT) are some of the most desirable jobs in US, with long waiting lines. Got try get a city job in NYC....

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by jandrewrogers on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @11:22AM (#12735346)

Yes, they are highly desirable to people that are non-ambitious and strongly risk averse, which includes a non-trivial percentage of the population. For a certain kind of person, those jobs are perfect; the pay and opportunity isn't great but the risk and level of effort is also low. I've worked in these organizations before; the people that take these jobs don't want much out of life, just looking to coast.

But most Americans find government jobs to be unfulfilling and stifling for exactly the same reason -- it is a dead-end. I know it is different in other countries but "government job" has mixed connotations in the US.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by untog on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @11:29AM (#12735412)

> the people that take these jobs don't want much out of life

I disagree - those people don't want much out of work, they still want plenty out of life. Most I've met have tremendously fulfilling family lives, or similar. Not to be discounted.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by RandomName2020 on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @11:37AM (#12735495)

NASA and Fermilab are also government jobs.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by TDL on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @10:59AM (#12735051)

Are you going to back up any of your claims?

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by RandomName2020 on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @11:29AM (#12735410)

Back up claims? It is common knowledge - bus drivers for example, working for Santa Clara county transit make $35/h, bus drivers for (contracted) Google and such make less than $20.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by TDL on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @01:36PM (#12736837)

That's not common knowledge to me, especially since I don't live in California. You have asserted certain claims and offer no evidence. "Common knowledge" isn't evidence.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by antisthenes on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @02:16PM (#12737180)

> "Common knowledge" isn't evidence.

But it is. The data for public salaries generally has very good availability in the Information age.

If you're trying to participate in a discussion in an informed way, you should at least conduct the minimum due diligence to do so.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by cloverich on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @02:50PM (#12737477)

Common knowledge is by definition not evidence.

> The data for public salaries generally has very good availability in the Information age.

The salaries don't seem particularly high, and in some cases (construction workers and bus drivers, top quarter) seem particularly low. Of course a lot more goes into job satisfaction than Salary but I agree, this is not common knowledge.

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/construction-worke...

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/bus-driver/salary

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by RandomName2020 on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @03:42PM (#12737973)

The point that BUS DRIVERS working for GOVERNMENT make better wages than BUS DRIVER working for PRIVATE sector. Not that bus drivers in general are rich people.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by cloverich on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @04:19PM (#12738266)

Ah. I think you've misread the comment in that case. The argument wasn't that the same job was typically better in private than government sector. It was that the types of jobs typically available in government (like the ones you mentioned) are viewed as less desirable in general, despite having good benefits, shorter hours, etc.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by RandomName2020 on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @04:46PM (#12738524)

For white collars yes, for blue collars - definitely no.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by RandomName2020 on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @02:02PM (#12737061)

I do not know how to even reply to that. Bus drivers, post delivery people, municipal construction workers etc. - all have better salaries and benefits than similar private workers. I am not sure how any adult living anywhere in US could manage to not know that.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by thedufer on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @07:09PM (#12739566)

You're talking past one another, I think. You are correct for most blue collar jobs; GP's description is accurate for most white collar workers.

Your downvotes are probably for your unnecessarily inflammatory final sentence.

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Re:Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds by uola on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @12:17PM (#12735938)

I actually think it's easier to be ambitious in Europe. Both in absolute terms, since it's easier to access good education education and working environment, and in relative terms, since there's more room to work harder than everyone else.

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