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Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by idlewords on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @01:52PM (#12686760)
I've called for a mandatory physical "wifi off" switch for all Internet-connected devices that disconnects the antenna. Useful for the times when you want your light bulb to just be a light bulb, and not DDOS some journalist.
Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by pavel_lishin on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @03:37PM (#12687813)
Some IoT and IoT-like things are simply completely non-functional without some sort of network connection. A physical switch is great for light bulbs, but it turns my child's crib-cam into a decorative art piece.

And when you would flip that switch, anyway? Wouldn't it make more sense to control this from your router? Something like changing the wifi password or network name would work even better (assuming you control the router.)

Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @05:29PM (#12688672)
IoT should be Intranet of Things, not Internet of Things. I'd say it's simple as that. But the commercial interests are so opposed to engineering sanity that I have no idea how to tackle it.

Maybe someone should start enforcing mandatory VPNs for households? I.e. I get you want to control your LED bulbs from your phone, but that doesn't imply they should be accessible from public Internet.

Also I wonder if the whole thing isn't just a symptom of a problem that we can no longer expand connected technologies while expecting zero knowledge from end users. Maybe it's about time to require some minimum amount of computer knowledge from citizens of a technological civilization?

Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by codedokode on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @10:00AM (#12692856)
I think so too. Public networks are networks full of hackers and NSA agents. The VPN-like protocol should be built into device so it doesn't accepts any packets not coming from its home network. And VPN (unlike SSL) allows encrypting traffic for external obverver while keeping it plaintext for owner.
Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by icebraining on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @06:19PM (#12688995)
Maybe someone should start enforcing mandatory VPNs for households? I.e. I get you want to control your LED bulbs from your phone, but that doesn't imply they should be accessible from public Internet.

You don't even need a VPN, just have the device only accept connections from local IPs (and use TCP to avoid spoofed IPs).

Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by pdkl95 on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @08:02PM (#12689480)
That allows attacks comes from another compromised device or TCP SYN packet that uses unusual routing. We've already seen Javascript based attacks that use the browser as a gateway to the LAN.

You need strong authentication and secure (proven input recognizer[1]) code in anything that connects to any network, even a guaranteed LAN. Border security is only one layer of protection, and LANs are rarely an isolated network.

[1] https://media.ccc.de/v/28c3-4763-en-the_science_of_insecurit...

Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by codedokode on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @10:02AM (#12692875)
That doesn't work universally, for example when your device is at home and your smartphone is in another country. Using VPN allows to build a secure network over public infrastructure.
Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by riskable on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @09:13AM (#12692460)
If something has a connection to the Internet--even if only through a proxy--we must treat it and all devices on the same network as if they are connected to the Internet. Because they are!

If Internet connections worked like radio broadcasts (one-way) then we'd be fine but they are inherently two-way connections. That means that for every outbound request a hole is opened up for return traffic. Even if you think, "that doesn't count" one must still account for the fact that PCs get compromised via side channels all the time and are subsequently used as pivot points for further attacks on any attached networks.

We need to stop treating intranets like they're somehow "safe" or special places apart from the Internet. They're not.

Always treat every device on any network as if it is being placed directly on the Internet because most of the time it really is. NATs and proxies aren't security tools even if they pretend to be.

Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by idlewords on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @06:02PM (#12688884)
I agree that for some devices it doesn't make sense. But having the power to take a device offline, and know in your bones that it is offline, is useful.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to control it all from your router too. But if your home router gets hacked, or there's a devastating crypto vulnerability, or you suspect your teakettle is ratting you out to the NSA, you should still be able to boil water with it.

Finally, a mandatory physical switch would remind people (and inform them) of just how much stuff they use is now net-connected.

Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by riskable on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @09:04AM (#12692394)
I like your sentiment but merely disconnecting the antenna isn't good enough. That just results in bad reception which often results in power being boosted which can introduce a lot of unnecessary noise into the WiFi RF spectrum.

I don't see any way around implementing them as bog standard "RFKill" switches. A software switch is basically the only way to go because the WiFi chips are controlled in software.

Re:Say Cheese: a snapshot of the massive DDoS attacks coming... by idlewords on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @11:48AM (#12693889)
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm happy with a software kill switch, as long as it's provably isolated from the rest of the system.

The nub of the idea is a legal requirement for a physical switch that will in all cases immediately disconnect the device from the network.