https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guidance_Patrol
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/20/influx-of-mora...
In the less-developed regions it's usually gangs policing with which do apply violence and these have been growing in the west also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_patrols
You can search youtube for the results, it's way to vile and NSFW to post it on HN.
Entirely different. If I take a big risk, I might be partly to blame for a negative outcome. If I do something immoral, I might be blamed for the negative consequence. But these are not the same semantics for blame; One says I should have been more diligent in avoiding harm; The other says I actually deserve harm. Conflating the two, or willingly ignoring the nuance is a liberal trick.
There are, despite liberal perception, few people that say someone intoxicated actually deserves to be assaulted, this is usually something put in peoples mouths. Meanwhile, this is very much the opinion wrt the Hijab - that the women are immodest and deserve punishment.
Show me a westerner that believes assault is a reasonable punishment for intoxication, and I'll show you crowd of westerners that despises them.
> If I take a big risk, I might be partly to blame for a negative outcome. If I do something immoral, I might be blamed for the negative consequence.
I think you are right about risks and outcomes, but not how it applies.
First, just in terms of your theory, what's the difference between a woman in London who doesn't cover up her skirt late at night, takes a risk, and gets assaulted, and a woman in Tehran who doesn't cover up her skirt with a hajib, takes a risk, and gets assaulted? (Bear with me ...)
* Note that many in the U.S. will say, 'she asked for it', and not just to their buddies. There are endless reports of law enforcement taking this attitude when rape victims report the crime and harassing them, to the degree that rape victims often don't report it. It's an official, if unwritten rule, to a meaningful degree.
* In Iran it's a written rule (I assume). Some in Iran will say she deserved it, as you noted for religious reasons. But I read that in Egypt, at least, a basis for that rule (I don't know how common, or if this is somehow religiously-based) is that women who don't cover up are tempting men, who can't be expected to resist. That's pretty similar to 'she asked for it'.
I think to a great degree it may be the same thinking, just rationalized and implemented in different ways in a secular and in a religious society. Either way, she violated social norms - men's rules about what she can do with her body - and deserves what she gets.
So people don't really fit into this label, yet you can still say they "aren't trying to trick anyone". You can either speak about "liberals", or you can't. I said it was a "liberal trick", maybe 'leftist' is a better term.
> what's the difference between
It's hard to tell, you need to know what the relevant aspects are. Is not wearing a hijab in Tehran dangerous because of the perception that the crime is deserved? This confounds the situation where risk is both known to the degree that it is a precedent, but that the fact that it is a precedent is because of the public perception that victims deserve their treatment.
If someone lost their house betting on the stock-market, we might find them to blame for their foolishness, yet still not care to tell them to their face, due to the magnitude of the situation, unless you knew them and their situation well.
I would advise a woman in Tehran to wear the hijab if there was a risk not doing so might put them at risk. I would say they put themselves at unreasonable risk if they did otherwise - I wouldn't say 'blame' out of respect for the ambiguity of the word in such a serious context. None of this means I agree with the fact that this risk exists, or that anyone deserves to be assaulted.
> Note that many in the U.S. will say, 'she asked for it' ... There are endless reports of law enforcement taking this attitude
Who? And in what context? The US is big place, are you telling me the precedent in Tehran, and the 'unwritten rule' in the US are of the same magnitude and veracity? I'm not so sure.
In any case, if this where true, then it's bad when the US do it too - this has no bearing on Tehran, and is only if it's true.
> women who don't cover up are tempting men, who can't be expected to resist
It is religiously based, in a place where that religious has real, unanimous, legal authority.
> the same thinking, just rationalized and implemented in different ways in a secular and in a religious society
Maybe so, except this thinking has no were near the same influence in the two cases.
Yes, it is much, much worse than in places like the US, it is carried out by state agencies like the morality police and by pseudo-state entities like the "Basij". As others pointed out, when you.move outside the cities things often get less 'civilised'
I understand that people don't want to fall into the trap of prejudice, but things are materially worse in places like Iran, and drawing parallels with how women are treated in the west is not helpful. We have problems, we don't have the morality police or relgious militias, at least here in the UK
I would request a different cite than FrontPage Mag, which appears to put a large banner at the top of every page saying 'Inside every liberal is a totalitarian screaming to get out'.
https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=preacher%20gay%2...
There are wackos everywhere, in every religion and town and country. When it's in our world, we have the cultural knowledge to know how much threat they really represent. When we see "Iranian Imam says ...", is that the equivalent of the Pope? Some fringe but powerful archbishop? A broad consensus? The strip mall preacher?
And not just fringe people but American leaders say hateful things, from mayors to governors to a guy who has a serious chance of being elected president.
I don't have much love for the pope either, but I feel that he at least has some political restrictions in west.
> American leaders say hateful things, from mayors to governors to a guy who has a serious chance of being elected president
Trump seems to be a little different from past candidates though, and "American leaders say hateful things" lacks magnitude - what percentage of leaders, and how was this perceived? For most, even the impression of racism is a career ender, and they are under a great deal of scrutiny.
Do you have any evidence that women are raped for not wearing the hijab? And is that happening any more than in the "enlightened Christian" countries, such as the US where people are also raped and murdered for the who they are?
http://www.rrsonline.org/?page_id=944
eg
>> Most studies reveal that approximately 50% of transgender people experience sexual violence at some point in their lifetime.48
>> The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs reports that lesbian, gay, bisexual, and queer people were three times more likely to report sexual violence and/or harassment compared to heterosexual people who reported to NCAVP in 2010.49
Surveys regularly show that people think the victims of violent sexual crime are partly to blame if they didn't fight back, or if they were in "the wrong place", or if they were intoxicated.