News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by weberc2 on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @07:38PM (#12648928)
> most wouldn't allow cameras

Because farmers are concerned that reporters are out to portray their operations as more inhumane or less safe than they really are. For example, nursing sows are kept in very small cages so they can't roll over and kill their piglets, but farmers know that most journalists would only see (and thus talk about) the claustrophobic quarters.

> Agriculture is ugly, and always will be.

I grew up on a farm; while there's certainly room for improvement, most farming operations are very humane. I can't speak to the extreme "big ag" end of the spectrum, but family farms--even large ones--tend to treat their animals well.

Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by shlant on Thursday October 06, 2016 @01:19AM (#12650406)
> I can't speak to the extreme "big ag" end of the spectrum, but family farms--even large ones--tend to treat their animals well.

This totally misses the point. Big Ag is where most of the supply comes from (and with demand, will continue to come from), therefor the practices in those environments should be the focus, not family farms. Focusing on the potential good does not in any way make the bad disappear. I just can't understand being ok with the proven, horrible conditions of large operations just because there are better examples out there.

We should be judging the state of things based on the worst examples, not based on the best...

Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by weberc2 on Friday October 07, 2016 @05:19PM (#12663994)
Your whole post is a straw man. No one is saying you have to ignore the sins of big ag because there are good farms out there.
Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by inimino on Thursday October 06, 2016 @02:05AM (#12650534)
> so they can't roll over and kill their piglets

If you'll excuse an ignorant question, how did pigs ever survive before this practice? And is it necessarily "humane" just because it reduces one kind of risk?

Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by gambiting on Thursday October 06, 2016 @03:43AM (#12650837)
Same as with any other animal - they have multiple offspring, so even if some of them die it's no big deal in nature. On a farm, you don't want even a single piglet to die that way, so you keep the sow in such position that it can't kill the piglets accidentally.
Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by inimino on Saturday October 08, 2016 @10:23AM (#12667018)
If it's not a big deal in nature, then it happens infrequently, yes? So the sows are kept in tiny pens (or pinned on their sides as in the photos in the article) to make reproduction a bit more efficient on the farm than in nature?

This was given as an example of something that looks more inhumane in pictures than it really is. The reason it looks inhumane is because one imagines the sow would prefer freedom of movement, as other living things do. The reason why it is done is certainly relevant, as is how long they are kept in that position, whether they ever appear to be in distress trying to move about, etc.

None of this is visible in a photo, and needs to be explained. However, I don't buy the argument that people have no right to see where their food comes from because they just wouldn't understand what they're seeing. A system where living things are raised for our benefit seems like a place where more transparency is called for, not less.

Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by weberc2 on Friday October 07, 2016 @05:20PM (#12663998)
^ ding, ding, ding. Winner!
Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by adrianN on Thursday October 06, 2016 @05:09AM (#12651093)
Assuming that the reason for the practice is correct, one explanation could be that the pigs that we raise for food are very different from the pigs that survived before that practice.
Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by jhbadger on Thursday October 06, 2016 @06:57AM (#12651442)
Domestic animals are stupid; they've been bred to be that way -- that's kind of what "domestication" is. Wild boar are dangerous animals. But in breeding out the aggressiveness, you lose a lot of useful traits as well.
Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by UweSchmidt on Thursday October 06, 2016 @05:05AM (#12651080)
The idea that you can't allow cameras because actual realistic video footage would be deceiving speaks of the delusion that exists in the food industry - "family farms" included. A reality where animals can regularly accidentaly kill their own offspring as a circumstance of how they are being kept is crazy and the idea that their movement should be restricted even more is truly insane.

Whenever I feel like having a Kebab I check Youtube for some food industry reality check and watch how these fairly intelligent animals are treated. Usually cures me of that need.

Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by weberc2 on Friday October 07, 2016 @05:26PM (#12664032)
> The idea that you can't allow cameras because actual realistic video footage would be deceiving speaks of the delusion that exists in the food industry - "family farms" included.

How so?

> A reality where animals can regularly accidentaly kill their own offspring as a circumstance of how they are being kept is crazy and the idea that their movement should be restricted even more is truly insane.

There's nothing insane about this claim. This is a well-documented problem.

Re:The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st Century Agriculture by UweSchmidt on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @03:50AM (#12682472)
You can't be deceived by seeing the reality on video (unless edited to manipulate). People have the vague idea of a happy cow that's eventually being eaten after a happy fun life on the Meadows, seeing the reality is of course revolting.

Idea being that restricting movement for the animal is terrible - can you relate to how that pig feels?