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Re:Airlines Embrace Pollution Plan That Could Cost Them $24B by phkahler on Monday September 26, 2016 @02:02PM (#12584093)
>> The problem with taxing the oil coming out of the ground is the incredibly complex nature of an unstable global market...

Just put a fixed tax per barrel, or per carbon atom, or whatever. The tax shouldn't depend on the price paid for the oil. Just put $1 for every barrel pumped in the US, and every barrel imported and presto - $19M per day of tax revenue ($7B per year) without a major impact to the consumer, and without creating that new market for credits and the associated politics. Do the equivalent for coal and gas too - you know all the carbon sources. People act like passing on a price increase is going to hurt their business, but when everyone has to do it that's not true.

Re:Airlines Embrace Pollution Plan That Could Cost Them $24B by stinkytaco on Monday September 26, 2016 @02:19PM (#12584248)
Well, other than the fact that you are oversimplifying a complex issue, I don't necessarily think you are wrong. But just to address some of the possible externalities that would have to be considered:

1. Not all oil that comes into the US is in the form of barrels of crude oil. It may come in refined (a small amount, I assume, considering the oversupply of refineries in the US). But more likely it comes in as part of an imported product.

2. Which leads to the problem we already have: if oil is expensive in the US, that further incentivizes moving to where it is not expensive. Instead of buying your expensive fertilizers to grow food in the US, why not grow more crops in Mexico or Canada and import them?

3. Or perhaps oil is a part of the manufacturing process (i.e. plastics). Now it's all of a sudden even cheaper to manufacture outside of the US. Of course, you also have the complicated problem of recycled materials as well.

4. Or it's part of the shipping process. I'm not sure how you even tax this.

All these problems need to be managed. We would need to address figuring out how much oil goes into any one thing we consume. We need to address free trade agreements (can we charge duty on a product depending on how much oil was used to make it, ship it or grow it?). We would need to provide incentives to recycling, manufacturing, organic agriculture, etc. etc.

It's not that these aren't problems we should try to solve, it's just that "presto, 7B of income a year" is not what will happen.

Re:Airlines Embrace Pollution Plan That Could Cost Them $24B by phkahler on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @09:10AM (#12589310)
Since this is an international agreement, you'd have to tax ALL carbon producers around the world. How you divide that tax revenue between the different countries would then be a political game but much simpler than creating a whole new market for carbon credits. Again, tax the carbon at the source and it won't matter weather it's refined, burned directly, or turned into plastic products, carbon out of the ground will all be taxed at the same rate to discourage it's unearthing. You say I'm oversimplifying a complex issue, but I'd argue that others are making it a complex issue when in fact it's conceptually very simple.
Re:Airlines Embrace Pollution Plan That Could Cost Them $24B by lmm on Wednesday September 28, 2016 @04:06AM (#12596124)
> Again, tax the carbon at the source and it won't matter weather it's refined, burned directly, or turned into plastic products, carbon out of the ground will all be taxed at the same rate to discourage it's unearthing.

Doesn't that create the wrong incentives? Digging up carbon and using it to make stuff that is kept around indefinitely / recycled into more stuff / buried when life-expired should be fine - it's putting it into the atmosphere that we want to discourage.

(Also there should be a positive incentive for taking carbon out of the atmosphere permanently).