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Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by gnarbarian on Sunday September 25, 2016 @11:37PM (#12579045)
>I struggle to see how the world could be arranged such that we could all hold forth with controversial views, but such that there was never a consequence to holding those views. What would that world look like?

It's called not talking politics or religion at work. Or not discriminating against someone because of something unrelated to their job. There is zero conflict of interest between Eich supporting prop 8 and heading the Mozilla foundation. Same as there is zero conflict of interest for Palmer Luckey supporting the leading candidate in the presidential election.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by glogla on Monday September 26, 2016 @02:42AM (#12579744)
There are limits to that kind of tolerance, though. You shouldn't care what politicians your coworker likes. You shouldn't care what religion your coworker follows.

You should care if your coworker is neo-nazi or if he is supporting Islamic State or Westboro Baptist Church.

The only diagreement is whether Eich was closer to the former or the latter. I can perfectly imagine people whose rights he wanted to take away to think he's the latter.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by ZoF on Monday September 26, 2016 @04:18AM (#12580131)
You have no evidence he is closer to the former and all this is is justification for cultural Marxism.

The only thing that an individual should be judged on at work is actions/comments/etc. made at work.

If you'd like to argue otherwise I'd hope you at least have something more formally define-able than 'he was trending towards being a neo-nazi'. I'd also expect you to be able to point to an authority for defining these ideological limits other than the currently loosely defined group-think.

Please answer these few scenarios:

-Should someone believing and actively promoting pro-life stances(outside of work) be fired?

-Should a casual narcotics user on weekends be fired once it's found out he/she uses?

-Should someone be fired for having a confederate flag hanging in their living room? What if they're black?

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by orf on Monday September 26, 2016 @04:42AM (#12580244)
Nobody black would hang a confederate flag in their living room.
Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by ZoF on Monday September 26, 2016 @04:46AM (#12580269)
Ironically I asked that the because the black people living in the apartment next to me do have a confederate flag in their living room(among _many_ others).

They also scream white power around the campfire when drunk though so perhaps not typical.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by gnarbarian on Monday September 26, 2016 @02:49AM (#12579774)
If you can't draw an objective and distinct line in plain English between where it is acceptable to discriminate and where it is not you shouldn't draw one at all.
Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by mzw_mzw on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @02:42PM (#12591902)
> I can perfectly imagine people whose rights he wanted to take away to think he's the latter.

I can perfectly imagine any number of anti-democratic, politically obsessive people who would think that way, yes. They are certainly welcome to hold that view, but if the rest of us want to maintain a cordial and pluralistic society instead of one of constant political warfare and discrimination, we need to oppose those people at every turn.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by stephenr on Monday September 26, 2016 @01:34AM (#12579465)
You can't police people's thoughts/feelings.

Those people both exercised their freedom of speech (via donations).

Freedom of speech is not freedom from the consequences of such speech.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by gnarbarian on Monday September 26, 2016 @01:46AM (#12579495)
>You can't police people's thoughts/feelings.

Cheers, Of course not.

>Freedom of speech is not freedom from the consequences of such speech.

Fair point. Riddle me this:

Should we force a baptist cake company to bake a cake for a gay wedding, force a Jewish bakery to bake a swastika cake, and force a Nazi bakery to bake a Jewish cake?

If not one. Why should we force one and not the others?

If you think the government should force nothing on any baker I agree with you.

>Those people both exercised their freedom of speech (via donations).

Which people? As far as I know there wasn't any actual fallout beyond saber rattling.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by stephenr on Monday September 26, 2016 @02:19AM (#12579638)
> Which people?

Reich and the guy from oculus who supported the trump group.

> Riddle me this

What is a "cake for a gay wedding" compared to any other kind of wedding cake? Is there same-sex marzipan I'm not aware of?

A baker refusing to bake a cake for someone because they're gay/Jewish is discrimination, and bigotry/racism (religious discrimination if you consider Judaism purely a religion and not an ethnicity/race)

Refusing to bake a cake for neonazis would also be discrimination. Refusing to bake a cake of a swastika isn't exactly the same thing - a swastika is imagery associated with one of the greatest war crimes of recorded history.

Also, you're in the wrong direction anyway. A business refusing service isn't the same as a consumer refusing to use a business.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by gnarbarian on Monday September 26, 2016 @02:40AM (#12579739)
>Also, you're in the wrong direction anyway. A business refusing service isn't the same as a consumer refusing to use a business.

I'm trying to establish an objective rule for what kinds of discrimination you believe should be legal. You described each situation but you didn't actually make a value judgement (which was the whole point of the question).

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by stephenr on Monday September 26, 2016 @04:41AM (#12580238)
A company refusing/rescinding service/employment to a person because of who they are/what they believe is discrimination.

A company refusing to produce a specific item for a person because they feel it is inappropriate is not discrimination unless they're providing the same thing to other people.

A person refusing to support a company because of the actions of its staff/owners/etc is not discrimination.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by csallen on Monday September 26, 2016 @03:36AM (#12579975)
Being gay/black/female/disabled/etc isn't a choice, therefore I don't believe businesses should be able to discriminate on that basis. Being a neo-nazi, a racist, a nudist, a hippy, a Michael Jackson fan, etc are choices, therefore it doesn't make sense for the government to make laws protecting such groups imo.
Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by gnarbarian on Monday September 26, 2016 @03:44AM (#12580007)
>being a neo-nazi, a racist, a nudist, a hippy, a Michael Jackson fan, etc are choices,

I'm not so sure. Maybe they were brought up that way. You can't choose your parents or your religion in that respect. Muslims have a choice to be Muslim or not, should it be OK to discriminate against them too?

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by csallen on Monday September 26, 2016 @04:03AM (#12580084)
I personally think we live in a deterministic universe and free will is a farce. A serial killer is, ultimately, the product of biological and environmental forces that were out of his control.

That said, we still need to draw the line somewhere if we want our laws to be effective. And the universally intuitive place to draw it is between biology and environment. The result is that environmentally unlucky individuals will get screwed so the rest of society can flourish. So yeah, if you had racist parents who brainwashed you with neo-nazi doctrine, I'm fully okay with the government not requiring that you be accepted by society.

Religions are a touchy subject for many, but I don't personally believe they should enjoy any special protections. And I say that as an atheist who'd be highly discriminated against by many, many people.

Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by gnarbarian on Monday September 26, 2016 @04:12AM (#12580107)
Cheers for a great discussion. Here's to hoping we don't get fired for it.
Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by csallen on Monday September 26, 2016 @04:30AM (#12580185)
Cheers! I'm self-employed, and hopefully I'll be able to remain that way so that won't become a risk for me :)
Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by jamespo on Monday September 26, 2016 @04:45AM (#12580262)
This is an attempt to reframe the argument and is relevant to Eich how? Was he brought up in an anti-gay cult? He's an adult, stop trying to claim he has no responsibility.
Re:UnGoogled Chromium: Chromium with enhanced privacy, contr... by csallen on Monday September 26, 2016 @05:09AM (#12580353)
I sincerely think we just started getting philosophical and forgot we were talking about Eich.