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Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by josho on Friday September 23, 2016 @12:09AM (#12562247)
I'd love to learn more about these botnets. I wonder about things like What's the average time that a compromised computer stays in this net. What is the typical computer (grandmas old PC running XP). Do the ISPs ever get involved to kill bots running on their networks?
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by yashinm92 on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:07AM (#12562638)
This was a mixed traffic botnet. There are speculations that a large chunk was from compromised IoT devices.
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by matt_wulfeck on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:48AM (#12562783)
How many IoT devices are out on the public internet at the moment?

and for the existing IOT devices, are they the same thing, or were different exploits used for different devices?

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by yashinm92 on Friday September 23, 2016 @05:11AM (#12563278)
How many on the public internet? Too many. Here are close to 100k IP cameras on the public internet: https://www.shodan.io/search?query=ip+camera

Again, the speculation that it is IoT devices is unfortunately just that. However massive compromise of internet connected embedded device is not new: http://internetcensus2012.bitbucket.org/paper.html

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by Spare_account on Friday September 23, 2016 @03:44AM (#12562979)
Are there any good quality articles you can link to discussing this?
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by yashinm92 on Friday September 23, 2016 @05:15AM (#12563295)
Good quality? I'm not sure. Just speculation on this one post: https://www.hackread.com/brian-krebs-website-665-gbps-ddos-a...
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by abricot on Friday September 23, 2016 @05:19AM (#12563312)
A botnet of coffee machines, thermostats and Teslas? :D
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by dharma1 on Friday September 23, 2016 @04:28AM (#12563127)
Got a source for that? Thanks
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by yashinm92 on Friday September 23, 2016 @05:13AM (#12563288)
Just this link: https://www.hackread.com/brian-krebs-website-665-gbps-ddos-a...

I'm a bit concerned about the reliability of that report since there are no strong proofs for their claim.

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by dharma1 on Friday September 23, 2016 @06:35AM (#12563542)
Interesting. Here's a bit more on IoT botnets

http://blog.level3.com/security/attack-of-things/

Good luck updating those embedded linux devices, or even alerting the people who own them

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by nylsaar on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:05AM (#12562633)
This is an interesting video examining a botnet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgDY3C8SEmY

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by solotronics on Friday September 23, 2016 @12:38AM (#12562350)
for the most part ISP are not set up to defend or stop DDoS from within their network. Do you go to a road building company to stop car thieves?
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by jethro_tell on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:00AM (#12562428)
no you don't because that's a bad analogy. We do however go to states and could ties to protect the infrastructures they paid the contractor to build.

ISPs are uniquely situated to stop this kind of ddos because the traffic originates from IPs they don't own. The traffic has a spoofed from address. And as a rule, the ISP.should only need to send traffic out of a neighborhood from the block of IPs that is assigned to that neighborhood. You can put a filter on every switch or even every interface allowing only traffic from the IP or IPs on the other side of the link to send traffic. A company like Comcast could make it default part of account setup scripts. If everyone did that, these would disappear over night.

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by ghshephard on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:12AM (#12562465)
Aren't there botnets that use their actual source address when spamming a DDOS target? How do you defend against that type of attack?
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by jethro_tell on Friday September 23, 2016 @12:47PM (#12565988)
Yes there are. but using your source address means that you are confined by the upload bandwidth of your hosts, instead of some mis configured DNS server with a 1000Mbps up in a datacenter. You'd just have to work a lot harder to get the bandwidth.

to add to that, You'll defiantly get some mis configured servers with 1000Mbps uploads. And those will be really easy to pick out of the lineup. And then you'd probably be able to call the DC and say that they should block that IP at their boarder and they would probably also comply because there's a good chance that customer that was doing 110Mbps and won't want to pay for 1000.

As it is now, because the source is spoofed, you can't really take the source offline, only take the destination down to keep the other hosts in close proximity running.

With a TCP connection you can pick the source and drop the handshake, basically never start the connection. Some of the windowing can be used to make a tcp connection less of an issue as well.

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by Jweb_Guru on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:13AM (#12562467)
If a bot is using its actual source address, you can block its IP at the edge (and even ask the ISP to investigate). Thanks to IP spoofing, that's totally ineffective, so instead the only way to make the attack stop is to null route the host.
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by shaunol on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:36AM (#12562546)
How does IP spoofing even work outside of those DNS reflection attacks mentioned on Krebs' blog? [1]

> "many were garbage Web attack methods that require a legitimate connection between the attacking host and the target, including SYN, GET and POST floods."

I constantly see references relating to DDoS attacks about how IP spoofing is such an obvious trick to use but I've never seen any way to actually do it. Why wouldn't every device on the internet spoof their IP?

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20160922021000/http://krebsonsec...

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by Jweb_Guru on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:47AM (#12562584)
> Why wouldn't every device on the internet just spoof their IP if it was this obvious thing?

https://spoofer.caida.org/summary.php - compromise a device in one of the ASes not marked "unspoofable." Those ASes do not consistently perform packet ingress filtering.

That's not to say that DDOS attacks stop being possible, but at least they become traceable.

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by shaunol on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:01AM (#12562623)
I appreciate the response. I had no idea things were this bad.
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by x0 on Friday September 23, 2016 @07:22AM (#12563728)
Thank you, I've actually been interested in the answer to this question for many years! Never was able to solve it via googling.
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by ghshephard on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:58AM (#12562826)
What do you do when you have 10, 20, 50 million bots using their actual source address? Do you just block all 50 million devices? If so, then that would be a great way to initiate denial of service on those devices.
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by kijin on Friday September 23, 2016 @07:18AM (#12563715)
Actually, that would be a good way to take all those insecure devices off the internet, or at least prompt someone to do something about it (even if temporarily, like hitting the "factory reset" button) before reconnecting them.

Most countries don't allow cars on the road that are unsafe due to lack of maintenance. Perhaps it's time to do something similar for internet-enabled devices that cause serious harm to others. Hold the user, manufacturer, or network operator responsible for harm caused by their lack of maintenance.

Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by zeeZ on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:00AM (#12562425)
If that road building company also collects tolls and controls access to their roads you sure as hell do
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by jethro_tell on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:02AM (#12562431)
Well that's the state. His analogy is like saying 'why would your fiber splicer police this.'
Re:Akamai takes Brian Krebs’ site off its servers after ‘rec... by josho on Friday September 23, 2016 @10:42AM (#12564961)
Most ISPs have a clause in their Terms of Service stipulating that you won't use the service for criminal activity. I'm pretty sure a DDoS can be argued as a criminal activity. So, it is in the ISPs right to stop service to those nodes. --Yes, I understand the consumer isn't the criminal, more so they are the victim and the crime took place on their service.

Further, technologists tend to be pretty good at solving problems. I know this isn't the ISPs problem, but it is a flaw in the network, I'm simply wondering if anyone is attempting to solve this problem at the network level rather than simply building bigger caching services to protect those that pay for protection.