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Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by yummyfajitas on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @11:20AM (#12497824)
We are witnessing the birth of a new phase that will leave a scar on mankind and make the sins of the Church, Hitler, North Korea and every other despotic regime that has tried to limit human freedom through the ages look amateurish if we do nothing about it now.

Nazis killed approx 40M people. Communists add another 100-200M to that total. Are you really suggesting that "large unbridled corporations" have proven through history that they will kill more than 240M people?

The only mechanism I can think of by which google might even approach this is by creating evil AI. Is that what you are referring to, or something else?

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by ta_donk_gt on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @01:04PM (#12499020)
> Nazis killed approx 40M people. Communists add another 100-200M to that total.

Without wanting to start a political battle here, this is not behavior that is limited to political systems. Western democracies have inflicted their fair share of death and carnage as well, though because they are "our team" we tend to see our behavior as justified and the other teams' behaviors as unjustified.

Humans with sufficient power will always eliminate any potential threats to their power, and do what they feel is necessary to expediently reach their goals...once that course of action has been successfully justified. That justification happens via one of or a combination of two ways: 1) rhetoric, propaganda, coalition building, education, etc. (various means of influencing those that might present road blocks to accept the behavior), and/or 2) possessing sufficient power that challenging the behavior is not an option.

Once corporations are able to politically justify eliminating those that stand in their way, they will...all humans in history with sufficient power have done so, and that is never going to change. Many large corporations already have more wealth than half of the nation states on this planet. That is a lot of power. The cornerstones of future political justifications are happening in things like TPP effectively raising the corporation to the level of nation state in some regards.

It will happen, it is only a matter of time. Initially it will be the ability to capture and imprison those threats to their power, and eventually it will lead to war and killing. This is the nature of our species. It's not going to change.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by z5h on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @12:10PM (#12498383)
Tobacco killed 100 million. Sugary drinks alone are linked to 180000 deaths/year. (And of course big sugar lied to us http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-ind...).

So, yes. Anything in the name of profit.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by cynicalkane on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @12:24PM (#12498575)
If capitalism went away, sugar and tobacco would still be a thing. For example, tobacco shortages sometimes caused economic unrest in the Soviet Union.
Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by yummyfajitas on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @12:42PM (#12498776)
Yes, clearly murder and forced starvation is totally equivalent to people making lifestyle choices that reduce their lifetime.

Clearly anyone selling soul food is just as guilty of murder (hate crimes?) as the guy who shot up that church in Charleston. And don't get me started on those murderous Punjabis, putting ghee on everything...

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by Smaug123 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @01:06PM (#12499035)
The corporations in this instance are essentially exploiting bugs in human biochemistry ("we like fat and sugar even when we've already had enough resources"); people are making these lifestyle choices at least in part because the corporations are actively influencing the choices.

Once you grant that the corporations are at least partly complicit, it's just a matter of multiplication. If the corporations can degrade enough people's quality-of-life, then in principle yes, they can ultimately have been Worse Than Hitler (TM).

So the question is actually, "To what extent have the corporations degraded people's lives?", and if you really must be binary, "Are the corporations Worse Than Hitler (TM)?". You are simply not addressing the actual question; you have answered the question, "Is murder equivalent to someone making a certain lifestyle choice?".

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by yummyfajitas on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @02:51PM (#12500090)
Anyone who owns a business containing the word "patiserrie" or "boulangerie" is exploiting the same bugs on a smaller scale. They regularly influence human behavior with the wonderful aromas they spread in their immediate vicinity.

So again, I ask: if Hostess corporation is genocidal, is La Bouche d'or merely a serial killer?

I'm asking for a little more than just whether a corporation could in principle be worse than Hitler (the specific claim lordarminius made), I'm asking for an actual plausible mechanism by which that could happen.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by z5h on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @01:04PM (#12499017)
It's not the thing that's being sold that is the problem. It's the systematic ways that the peddlers lie and game the system that prevent us us from making the choice in "lifestyle choice".

Seems they got to you too. Or perhaps you're one of them.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by cynicalkane on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @05:24PM (#12501321)
It's strange that yummyfajitas' post is flagged and killed, presumably for asking a legitimate question in a sarcastic way that rubbed some biased and oversensitive moderator the wrong way.

Contrast to this post, which accuses of him of being "one of them", presumably part of a conspiracy to spread apologia for poor food choices on a hacker interest forum!

An absurd claim, insulting, illogical, of no service to the conversation, but remaining alive and upvoted. We can see further content-free insults in replies to this post. This is the first time I've seen a post killed for reasons that are obviously wrong. In addition, they are wrong in a dangerous way, killing mere rhetorical sarcasm while allowing actual insults, of negative worth, to run wild.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by DanBC on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @05:29PM (#12501353)
> oversensitive moderator the wrong way.

Moderators didn't touch his post. His post was downvoted by users, and flagged by users.

I'm not a mod, so I don't know this, but it's pretty clearly what happened.

If you think it shouldn't be dead you should click the timestamp and then click the [vouch] link.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by cynicalkane on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @06:58PM (#12501932)
Thanks, I didn't know about the flag/kill procedure or the vouch link.
Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by davidivadavid on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @03:38PM (#12500513)
People are lied into drinking soda?
Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by z5h on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @03:44PM (#12500574)
Yes.
Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by davidivadavid on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @03:54PM (#12500666)
Oh okay, moving along then. I just thought people drank sugary drinks because they liked it. Silly me. But you're right, it must be because they're oblivious to the fact they contain sugar, I mean what with the fact the media completely silences that subject... and it's not even written on the bottles. Fucking corporations amirite.
Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by Smaug123 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @04:05PM (#12500766)
Analogy: swap out sugar for smoking. People smoke because they like it. And because they can't stop. One of the reasons they can't stop is that there are massive industries devoted to ensuring that they don't (witness, for instance, the rising levels of nicotine in cigarettes, presumably intended to make the product more addictive). I mean, what with the fact that the media completely silences that subject… and it's not even written on the packets with giant health warnings and pictures of blackened lungs. Corporations, amirite?

The above japery is to demonstrate that to a large extent, your sarcasm misses the point.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by davidivadavid on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @04:11PM (#12500816)
So your contention is that people can't stop smoking. Unfortunately that's contradicted by a fair amount of evidence. I'm going to go ahead and consider your theory falsified.
Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by Smaug123 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @04:19PM (#12500892)
By all means continue to think that it is easy to stop smoking (no-one disputes that it is possible; the relevant point is whether it is easy, as I hoped was clear from the start), but as is often the way, the second paragraph of the Wikipedia page contains the appropriate information. Of all attempts to stop smoking without assistance, between 3 and 6 percent are successful (though the article later suggests an average 7.3% success rate).

Stopping with chemical assistance, the success rate rises to about 30%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_cessation

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by ksk on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @02:15PM (#12499730)
>The only mechanism I can think of by which google might even approach this is by creating evil AI

If you control people's access to information, you control people's minds, albeit indirectly. Its a simple philosophy that has kinda-sorta worked in China. You can get large scale approval from the public for pretty horrendous things like the US has done, simply by controlling what gets seen on cable news/mainstream media, etc. If Google is the gatekeeper of all information (so far it isn't), and they're ultimately controlled by the NSA or CIA, then we're screwed. So how many people has the US killed? How many of those wars could have been avoided if the public weren't fed lies?

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by azakai on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @11:25AM (#12497882)
Killing millions of people is horrible, but taking away the privacy of billions is terrifying as well.

And while obviously murder is worse than stalking, we don't really know where things will end up. We are in uncharted territory with the new information collection society we live in.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by PavlovsCat on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @10:22PM (#12502870)
You know why murder is bad? Because it keeps a person from living their own life. So yes, fucking with billions of people for x years, at best just influencing them a bit, at worst exploiting them rather extremely, soaking up 90% of their time so some psychopath can buy an additional golf course, absolutely does amount to a whole lot of murder. Remember early capitalism? Children in mines? So when someone gets exploited and then dies of diseases, or lives as a sick poor person for decades, is that not a sibling of murder?

There is something as the walking dead, there really is. As Nietzsche said, the last man lives the longest... but the question probably is, do they actually live. People seem to become more timid and more neurotic, instead of more alive, more defenseless rather than more skillful, they suffer "information overload" rather than being more informed. That's just anecdotal, but I'm amazed at just how many weak and stuck up people I meet each day, and how young so many of them are. Between their parents being fools or having no time for them, and them being sprayed with the mental equivalent of fast food everywhere else, sometimes even reaching into the education systems -- all that does have an effect. You might say we're being gaslighted on a global scale.. and mixed, dishonest signals hurt even the strongest people, others they can drive positively insane.

And they are only emitted by the unhinged, too. Only broken people, or people in broken moments (same difference really, even though I speak of "types of people" I ultimately do mean types of behaviors and habits etc., I think everybody can theoretically change but it's easier and more satisfying to be self-righteous) want power for the sake of power, all rationalizations and neat excuses be damned, that's what is at the core of it and it matters, and they are slowly molding us in the image of the screaming, empty abyss that is their personality.

Would you rather live for 2 weeks as you, or for 50 years with very strong dementia? If you set aside how strongly I feel about this, that I have chips on my shoulder and pet peeves; do you at least see my point in principle?

For totalitarian systems, murder is not an end in itself. Making people, their individual agency, their unpredictable "spark", totally obsolete, by murder or other means, THAT is at the heart of it. And in that sense, we live in a world that is becoming so totalitarian it might not even afford us the honesty of murdering us.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by inanutshellus on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @12:41PM (#12498768)
It could be identifying you as part of a group then excluding you from job/status/money/influence.

The future is subtle damage, not necessarily heads-on-pikes evil.

Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by redwards510 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @12:57PM (#12498937)
This subtlety is exactly what I fear the most. Detailed personality profiles are being created about you. You can't modify them and you can't argue about their accuracy. Potential employers, romantic partners, and friends will be able to read these and shun you.
Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by thesimpsons1022 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @12:33PM (#12498675)
what about when president trump starts forcing Google to use its AI to detect Muslims?
Re:Google’s become an obsessive stalker by dredmorbius on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @01:16PM (#12499165)
Or have their cars drive them across the Wall, or to the nearest detention centre.