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Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by dkarapetyan on Monday September 05, 2016 @05:36PM (#12432340)
So pedophiles obviously don't choose to be pedophiles. I'm certain it is a biological vagary. There should be a better way to treat people that are a certain way because of biology and not choice.

The other issue is I'm not sure if FBI did the right thing here. For whatever brief period this was state sponsored and sanctioned pedophile ring.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by dogma1138 on Monday September 05, 2016 @05:41PM (#12432359)
It's really not clear why and how one does become a pedophile, that said the FBI was going after the producers and dealers of child pornography not the consumers.

For the most part the consumers are being left out of major prosecutions, one can also make an argument that blocking all sources of CP might increase sexual assault cases involving children if the users cannot get their relief that way.

But this overall isn't a clear cut case.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by 1_listerine_pls on Monday September 05, 2016 @05:52PM (#12432414)
> one can also make an argument that blocking all sources of CP might increase sexual assault cases...

mmm... I don't see how one could argue that without actual data.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by probably_wrong on Monday September 05, 2016 @06:28PM (#12432573)
The idea has been thrown around for a while, but of course, there's no way to get a definite truth on the matter.

Here's one article[1] claiming a possible link between availability of porn and abuse. But I'm sure there must be at least one other study arguing the opposite.

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21116701

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by aerovistae on Monday September 05, 2016 @06:00PM (#12432445)
It's a chore sometimes not to break the vulgarity rules here.

You do understand that child pornography is created by the rape of children?

You're saying, "Well, it could be argued that if we stop letting these guys rape them, possibly more children might get raped. We should let it go."

No.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by Hondor on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:46PM (#12433195)
This attitude is why it's so hard to have a sensible conversation about child porn. Change the subject to torture, murder, genocide or any number of far worse things and people won't get so emotionally wound up. There's something about child porn that bring out the jungle in people beyond proportion. There's nothing wrong with throwing ideas around in a discussion. Nobody here is going to go rape a child just because they talked about the definition of rape.
Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by OneTimePatrick on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @02:37AM (#12433994)
The sad-irony here is, the very same wound up individuals don't give anything emotion-wise if a childs rights are violated on a non-sexual basis. Sweatshops to glue those phones, shoes and shirts together? Not a problem. Beating them for religious reasons. Not a problem. Starving them for social ideologies. Thats okay, they are responsible for themselves. As seen in WW2 and later crimes. Genocide on families (including children), okay, as long as you don't have to witness it and can make a profit from it.

Its really only sexual crimes that get monsters to rage at monsters. It must be some primal instinct, that is completely detached from the crime and the victim itself. Its really all about the pure existence of the criminal.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by angry-hacker on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @12:38AM (#12433699)
Torture is worse?

The kids grow up and suffer tremendously. They are tortured every day for the rest of their lives.

Many, if not majority wish they were dead.

You must lack any empathy to make a comparison like that.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by gizmo686 on Monday September 05, 2016 @06:11PM (#12432500)
s/rape/statutory rape/g

In our current environment, this is mostly a pedantic distinction because almost all child porn is produced in an otherwise abusive environment.

Also, the definition of child porn is far broader than what would be required to meet the definition of rape, which requires penetration. [0]

The definition of child porn is also sufficiently broad to include any pornographic image that depicts an identifiable minor in a sexual act, whether or not said minor was actually ingaged in said act, or involved in the production in any way.

The FBI also has a stash of already created child porn. Any harm resulting from the creation of said porn has already been done, and is therefore not a reason to not use it in order to reduce future harm.

[0] Technically, many jurisdictions do not have any form of "statatury rape", but instead use other crimes like sexual abuse.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by Mtinie on Monday September 05, 2016 @08:56PM (#12433068)
> The FBI also has a stash of already created child porn. Any harm resulting from the creation of said porn has already been done, and is therefore not a reason to not use it in order to reduce future harm.

I'd like to play the Devil's Advocate here.

Isn't that application of intent and affect the same as a convicted viewer could use to explain why they didn't hurt anyone? They weren't the person behind the camera, nor the person who had sexual relations with the child, so what harm is their consumption of the content?

The government also has a substantial quantity of already produced narcaotics, opiates, psychadellics, and other Schedule 1 drugs that they've confiscated from suppliers and users. Are they free to sell a portion of those drugs in order to find people they can target for future prosecution? I'm not talking about stings where no actual product is exchanged, but months of supplying communities with illegal drugs.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by pavel_lishin on Monday September 05, 2016 @07:20PM (#12432736)
> s/rape/statutory rape/g

We're not talking about a 25 year old filming his 17 year old girlfriend giving him head here. This is the kind of stuff where the people involved cannot consent. Your spellchecker is broken.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by gizmo686 on Monday September 05, 2016 @07:31PM (#12432784)
>We're not talking about a 25 year old filming his 17 year old girlfriend giving him head here.

Yes we are. What you describe is child pornography. Depending on jurisdiction, the girlfriend cannot consent. Even in jurisdictions where she can consent, it is still child porn. Even in situations where the 17 year old is acting alone, it is child porn. Even in situations where the 17 year old draws a picture of herself masturbating, it is child porn.

I guest you are correct, my comment should read:

s/rape/depiction in a sexual manner/g

Either way, my point is that we should be careful of the language we use, and recognize that child pornography is far broader than circumstances that would generally be considered "rape" are. My phrasing was sub-optimal due to my other problem with the conflation of statutory rape and normal rape.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by Hondor on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:57PM (#12433233)
The idea the some people "cannot consent" is disproven by the fact that some countries allow underage people to have consensual sex with each other but not with overage people. Somehow they can consent sometimes but not other times. Where I'm from, it's common for kids to be having sex at 13. They "can't consent" but somehow do it anyway without breaking the law.
Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by pavel_lishin on Monday September 05, 2016 @10:22PM (#12433297)
I'm not talking about 14 year olds; I'm talking about people in single digits, and children who can't walk yet.
Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by lawnchair_larry on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:49PM (#12433206)
Any harm resulting from the creation of said porn has already been done, and is therefore not a reason to not use it in order to reduce future harm.

Easy to say if it isn't you or your kids getting raped on video.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by dogma1138 on Monday September 05, 2016 @06:10PM (#12432494)
And? the FBI did not create it, it redistribute it much of it I would assume is pretty darn old, wouldn't surprise me if things that originally were recorded on VHS is still around being sold and traded. I think that the entire argument flew over your head, the FBI isn't going after consumer it is going after the producers you know the ones in your case who are actually doing or arranging the raping.
Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by gph on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:45PM (#12433193)
>I'm certain it is a biological vagary. There should be a better way to treat people that are a certain way because of biology and not choice

But that brings up the entire question of how much anyone truly has a conscious choice in any of their actions. A lot of evidence is pointing to 'free will' being an illusion our conscious minds uphold to make us feel like we are in control.[0]

In the end I doubt very much there is a specific set of genes that causes one to be a pedophile, just as there isn't a set of genes that makes someone a murderer or thief. There's perhaps at best some genes that may pre-dispose a person towards pedophilia (though I doubt it), but clearly a persons environment is going to be the biggest determiner. It's well known that most child abusers were abused themselves.

So until we start looking on all criminals as people that need to be treated and cured of their condition, it doesn't make sense to treat pedophiles that way.

[0] http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-n...

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by dkarapetyan on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:52PM (#12433216)
Studies in bonobos point to there being a very strong genetic component in fact. Bonobos and chimps being our closest relatives I think the biological evidence is more compelling than you think.
Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by gph on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:59PM (#12433240)
Source? I'd be interested in reading about that.
Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by dkarapetyan on Monday September 05, 2016 @10:04PM (#12433254)
I've lost the reference but it was a study of sexual behavior in bonobos and their "non-discriminatory" attitude and practices. Bonobos of course being famous for their sexual proclivities and chimps being famous for their violent proclivities.

If you google relevant keywords I'm sure it will turn up.

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by gph on Monday September 05, 2016 @10:29PM (#12433311)
Ok... but were certain bonobos more likely to be non-discriminatory than other bonobos based on genetics?

Yea there's tons of studies talking about bonobos sexuality. I did a google search and nothing about a specific set of genes causing a certain sexual behavior in a segment of the bonobo population.

What you are talking about sounds like general behavior in an entire population. And if that's the case then why aren't all humans pedophiles?

Edit: As a counterpoint this is the first thing I found when searching for 'bonobo' 'gene' 'sexuality'

http://www.dnafiles.org/?q=chimp-chat/day-four

Re:FBI’s Deep Web Child Porn Ring Questions Role of Gov’t in... by sandworm101 on Monday September 05, 2016 @05:43PM (#12432372)
> state sponsored and sanctioned pedophile ring.

A child pornography ring. I have yet to hear any evidence of FBI participation in physical abuse, new physical abuse. They seem to have allowed preexisting material to be re-shared. If anything new was uploaded during this time we would have heard about child abuse arrests. A "pedophile ring" has a very different connotation. Both are bad, but one is a very different type of evil.