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Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by taneq on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:13AM (#12423642)
Just like there are regularly reported "MDMA deaths" in the mainstream media despite MDMA never having been reasonably blamed for any death (beyond crazy "took 50x recommended dosage" or disingenuous "took something they thought was MDMA but was actually ketamine" cases).
Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by tpm on Sunday September 04, 2016 @08:22AM (#12423968)
That's not really true, MDMA in high doses does have dangerous acute effects which can be deadly (hyponatremia, hyperthermia).

See f.e. Martha Fernback, Anna Wood. I mean even if you die from water poisoning or heart attack (at the age of 15), that would not happen if you don't ingest MDMA beforehand.

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by taneq on Sunday September 04, 2016 @10:12AM (#12424427)
OK, if you're a 45kg woman and you take six pills in an evening and then drink 10 liters of water, you'll die. If you get crushed in a crowd surge, you might die. Blaming those on MDMA specifically is usually fatuous though, even if it was a precursor. It's like saying that eating McDonalds is implicated in street racing deaths because some people who die in street races do so with McDonalds wrappers in the car.
Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by pyre on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:48AM (#12424931)
If I take a drug that induces me to drink 10 litres of water, am I at fault for drinking 10 litres of water or does the drug have some culpability?
Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by loeg on Sunday September 04, 2016 @12:38PM (#12425258)
I don't think you can blame MDMA for drinking 10L of water. I think that's entirely a socialized overreaction to the typical side effect of MDMA (not noticing you're overheating from constant activity in a crowded space).
Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by ZenoArrow on Sunday September 04, 2016 @03:06PM (#12426125)
MDMA doesn't give you the level of thirst for water that you're describing. It does generally make you feel warmer than usual, but there are plenty of ways to cool down other than drinking water (drinking water helps, but going outside works too). Also, it doesn't have the same effect as alcohol on your sense of judgement, you can do stupid stuff on it but generally you're more aware of what's going on.

That's not to say it's for everybody (people with heart defects probably shouldn't mess with it, and IIRC it can deplete serotonin in the long run if overused), but the main risks appear to come from those who take large doses and/or mix it with other drugs (through their own fault or by a dealer cutting it with something else).

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by oldmanjay on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:54AM (#12424959)
Drugs can't bear fault. They have no means of moral expression. The person who took the drug bears all culpability.
Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by tpm on Sunday September 04, 2016 @01:38PM (#12425626)
We can very well blame those deaths on MDMA, because the causality is clear.

If you take six pills of anything that exists in pill form and you die, then assuming one pill is something of a standard dose, that means that chemical has a low therapeutic index and is therefore dangerous.

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by montecarl on Sunday September 04, 2016 @03:11PM (#12426157)
This is actually not that different from the therapeutic index of paracetamol (Tylenol)[1]. Paracetamol is a super safe drug when used exactly as directed (both dosage and not taking with alcohol), but taking any more than prescribed can be fatal.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by tpm on Sunday September 04, 2016 @05:43PM (#12426870)
Exactly. Thankfully nobody is claiming that paracetamol is not killing people - quite clearly, it is. As is MDMA, even if it's quite safe (and fun) to use in most cases.
Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by s_q_b on Sunday September 04, 2016 @07:19PM (#12427199)
Well... paracetamol is a modern day denaturing agent. Under DEA influence, paracetamol is included many opiate painkillers to "deter abuse."
Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by DanBC on Sunday September 04, 2016 @07:24PM (#12427213)
Do you have a cite for that?

Most combination meds try to get synergistic benefits - the combination allows you to use lower doses of both active ingredients. (This probably doesn't work, but that was the intent when the meds were created.)

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by thesimpsons1022 on Sunday September 04, 2016 @12:00PM (#12425004)
there are no overdose deaths but it has been shown to have deleterious effects on the brain
Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by wildmusings on Sunday September 04, 2016 @08:43AM (#12424032)
>despite MDMA never having been reasonably blamed for any death

You're just plain wrong here. Ecstasy is a dangerous drug that can cause overheating, dehydration, and other very serious conditions that can and do result in death. Further, the drug's effects discourage the behaviors, like eating and drinking water in reasonable quantities, that are essential to preventing those conditions. With their sense of hunger and thirst totally haywire, some people try to overcompensate and end up dying from too much water.

And as for the long-term effects of regular MDMA use: persistent brain damage and loss of cognitive function.

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by taneq on Sunday September 04, 2016 @10:39AM (#12424546)
Unless you go nutso and drink stupid amounts of water, you' re not in any danger. The danger is that everyone tells you "oh you could get dehydrated, drink as much water as you can" and some people follow this advice literally when pinging. Drink 500mL-1L per hour and you'll be fine. In my own experience you run hot but your thermoregulation still works so you'll naturally seek cooler spaces when you start overheating - this is why clubs/raves have "chillout zones".

I can't speak to long term effects, I only took it a few times at intervals of a few months. In my experience, MDMA is the opposite of addictive - if you've had a good night on it, taking more will do nothing for you for a few weeks.

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by sparky1990 on Sunday September 04, 2016 @01:07PM (#12425424)
Ecstasy is really not a very dangerous drug.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/08/is-ecs...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/4537874...

David Nutt has spoken widely and very entertainingly about drugs and their relative harms. This is an excellent lecture he has done a number of places on politics and drug policy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkcO_wJ9yKo&spfreload=10

Nutt also founded the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs:

http://www.drugscience.org.uk

This is a very good source for accurate information about drug risks and harm reduction.

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by jeremyjh on Sunday September 04, 2016 @08:53AM (#12424080)
>drinking too much water and dying

Citation needed.

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by wildmusings on Sunday September 04, 2016 @08:58AM (#12424101)
Definition: Hyponatremia is a condition that occurs when the level of sodium in your blood is abnormally low. Sodium is an electrolyte, and it helps regulate the amount of water that's in and around your cells. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hyponatremia/b...

Risk factors: Certain drugs. Medications that increase your risk of hyponatremia include thiazide diuretics as well as some antidepressants and pain medications. In addition, the recreational drug Ecstasy has been linked to fatal cases of hyponatremia. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hyponatremia/b...

While staying hydrated can reduce the risk of heat stroke associated with MDMA, the drug can also cause the body to retain water, so drinking too much can lead to a potentially fatal electrolyte imbalance. http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/03/concert-deaths-five-my...

More common, ecstasy has led to serious hyponatremia and hyponatremia-associated deaths. Hyponatremia in these cases is due to a "perfect storm" of ecstasy-induced effects on water balance. Ecstasy leads to secretion of arginine vasopressin as well as polydipsia as a result of its effects on the serotonergic nervous pathways. Compounding these effects are the ready availability of fluids and the recommendation to drink copiously at rave parties where ecstasy is used. The effects of ecstasy on the kidney as well as therapeutic measures for the treatment of ecstasy-induced hyponatremia are presented. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18684895

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by ddeck on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:36AM (#12424868)
>Risk factors: Certain drugs...

Additional risk factor: Poorly thought out radio contests:

"A 28-year-old woman found dead hours after taking part in a radio station's water-drinking contest died of water intoxication, the coroner's office said Saturday" [1]

[1] http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jan/14/local/me-water14

Re:The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition (2010) by wildmusings on Sunday September 04, 2016 @12:24PM (#12425177)
What point are you trying to get at here? Every stupid thing that a drug can make you do has also been done by someone sober at some point.