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Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by tzs on Sunday September 04, 2016 @02:40AM (#12423104)
> I'm pretty sympathetic to the cause of feminism especially in technology and I cringe hard at a lot of the casual sexism that gets thrown around, but this is truly baffling.

It's not that baffling. Being a victim of harassment raises your status in certain circles. People in those circles tend to accept your word without requiring any other evidence, and so naturally some people will find harassment in anything that happens to or near them that can be stretched or interpreted, no matter how far fetched, in some way to be harassment.

This is bad because it makes it harder for actual victims. Too many people making exaggerated or false claims will make people less likely to believe the real victims.

This is probably more general. In general, if some event raises status in a group a person is in, and claims of that event are hard to verify, some people will claim the event even if it did not happen to them. They may not even be knowingly lying. They may be convinced it did happen.

A couple examples are having Native American ancestry and being abducted by a UFO. Many people claim one or both of these, and there are groups in which those claims will raise your status. Result: a lot more people claim Native American ancestry than actually have Native American ancestors, and the number of people who claim to have been abducted by UFOs is way higher than the number who have actually been abducted. My guess would be most of these false claims are from people who believe they are telling the truth.

The desire for status in the groups you are in is very strong. For instance, I recall reading a book about the major criminal gangs on Los Angeles, and they talked about status within the gangs. One of the things that earned you higher status was being arrested, refusing to talk or cooperate, refusing to take a plea bargain, and getting sent to jail. Gaining status was so important to new, young teen gang members that they would purposefully commit crimes that would get them a few months incarceration so that they could gain the status. Note that unlike UFO abduction or Native Ancestry, serving jail time is verifiable, so they young gang members cannot simply claim they served time to gain the status. They actually have to do it, and they do because gaining status is that important.

Any evolutionary biologists here? I'm curious if our need for status is just a cultural thing, or if it predates culture? I believe that most of our current close primate relatives live in groups where status relationships are very important, so it seems at least plausible that this is something that developed very long ago, in the common ancestors we share with those other primates.

Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by IsaacL on Sunday September 04, 2016 @04:32PM (#12426554)
Dude, dude, dude, you've almost identified the real issue here (interpreting everything as harassment for the sake of an agenda), and then gone off onto wild elaborate tangents about social status and evolutionary biology.

Look at the actual people who incite these campaigns (e.g., https://twitter.com/nexxylove/status/771503661956501504).

"Don't bother to examine a folly, ask yourself only what it accomplishes". These people have a laser-focused sensitivity on actions which make certain groups feel unwelcome. They can't be unaware of the messages they themselves are sending. Who are they trying to make feel unwelcome?

Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by PavlovsCat on Wednesday September 07, 2016 @08:02AM (#12442580)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBRGMcdAKzs&t=13m15s

"I have a theory, feel free to prove me wrong by "kicking out" "toxic actors", I dare you".

The sad part is, I think she does have a point. People who treat each other decently might soon enough LEARN to be great coders, while being good at something is really no excuse to be a dick. Not that I think Crockford is one, but generally speaking; the better you are, the more polite you ought to be towards "little ones", or you're an asshole. But the whole logic of let's prove it by assuming it's true, with ZERO thought given to what to do if it turns out wrong, is just one gaping wound of a brainfart, I'm just astonished. I'm not not just saying that to be snarky: it does remind me of things Hannah Arendt wrote about totalitarian propaganda, e.g. someone is declared as unfit to live and then killed, proving the theory correct, with some pseudo-scientific, pseudo-compassionate babble on the side. Oh, but they're "just" declaring people as non-existing for them and any decent person, so that's different, right? Well, not different enough to be acceptable. One way in which it is the SAME is that the words are just a bunch of hot air and sophistry, the standards are all double - it's all about the action, the movement, the in-group. You don't have to build concentration camps for there to be something deeply wrong with that.

> They can't be unaware of the messages they themselves are sending.

Oh, as foot soldiers of course they can be unaware. Between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect there isn't anything anyone cannot get themselves to believe.

Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by curioussavage on Monday September 05, 2016 @01:45AM (#12428369)
Oh my goodness they actually have a tweet about the weak map statement!! https://twitter.com/nodebotanist/status/512891046192504832

I thought it was a joke, I mean... its almost funny now.

Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by nradov on Sunday September 04, 2016 @04:23AM (#12423368)
Since the number of people actually abducted by UFOs is 0, it's trivially true that the number of claimed abductions is higher than actual abductions.
Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by mpweiher on Sunday September 04, 2016 @05:29AM (#12423525)
How dare you deny the lived experience of the UFO abductees!!
Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by ktRolster on Sunday September 04, 2016 @07:41AM (#12423841)
the number of people actually abducted by UFOs is 0

How can you possibly be certain of that?

Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by flukus on Sunday September 04, 2016 @10:59PM (#12427839)
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Until I see the extraordinary evidence I'm going to assume the number of UFO abductees is the same as the number of leprechaun abductees.
Re:In defence of Douglas Crockford by ktRolster on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:47PM (#12433200)
You're the one making assumptions.