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Re:Docker not ready for primetime by tptacek on Sunday August 28, 2016 @04:20PM (#12378327)
It's not worth the bother. Apart from keeping patches up today --- which is a good idea --- it's probably not really buying you anything.

It's not crazy to periodically rotate keys, but attackers don't acquire keys by, you know, stumbling over them on the street or picking them up when you've accidentally left them on the bar. They get them because you have a vulnerability --- usually in your own code or configuration. Rebuilding will regenerate those kinds of vulnerabilities. Attackers will reinfect in seconds.

Re:Docker not ready for primetime by lawnchair_larry on Monday August 29, 2016 @04:35PM (#12385086)
A lot of companies do lose their keys that way. www roots, gists, hardcoded in products, github history, etc.

The win to rotating them is not so much because you'll be regularly evicting attackers you didn't know had your keys, but because when you do have a fire, you won't be finding out for the first time that you can't actually rotate them.

It also forces you to design things much more reliably which helps continuity in non-security scenarios.

After redeploying and realizing that Todd has to ssh in and hand edit that one hostname and fix a symlink that was supposed to be temporary so the new version of A can talk to B, that's going to get rolled in pretty quickly. Large operations not doing this tend to quickly end up in the "nobody is allowed to touch this pile of technical debt because we don't know how to re-create it anymore" problem.

Re:Docker not ready for primetime by tkiley on Sunday August 28, 2016 @04:56PM (#12378492)
It seems like it's good to be able to rebuild everything at a moment's notice after patching against a major exploit, though. You should have a fast way to rebuild secrets and servers after the next heartbleed-scale vulnerability.
Re:Docker not ready for primetime by tptacek on Sunday August 28, 2016 @05:05PM (#12378532)
Being able to rebuild critical infrastructure from source, and know that you'll be able to reliably deploy it, is a _huge_ win for security.

After a bunch of harrowing experiences with clients, I'm pretty close to believing "using packages for critical infrastructure is a bad idea".

Re:Docker not ready for primetime by helloiamaperson on Sunday August 28, 2016 @07:03PM (#12378964)
Being able to rebuild critical infrastructure from source, and know that you'll be able to reliably deploy it, is a _huge_ win for security.

In that case, you might be interested in bosh: http://bosh.io/docs/problems.html (the tool that enables the workflow jacques_chester was describing). It embraces the idea of reliably building from source for the exact reasons you've mentioned.

Re:Docker not ready for primetime by Gigablah on Monday August 29, 2016 @12:04AM (#12379943)
I'm confused now, earlier you recommended patches over rebuilding continuously from source, but this seems like the opposite?
Re:Docker not ready for primetime by Noumenon72 on Sunday August 28, 2016 @10:16PM (#12379574)
What does "packages" mean here? Sorry.
Re:Docker not ready for primetime by edmccard on Monday August 29, 2016 @01:26AM (#12380180)
My guess is that "packages" is shorthand for "binary packages", as opposed to being able to redeploy from source.
Re:Docker not ready for primetime by tptacek on Monday August 29, 2016 @01:07PM (#12383312)
Nod.
Re:Docker not ready for primetime by Gigablah on Monday August 29, 2016 @12:01AM (#12379939)
I'm guessing they meant to write "patches".
Re:Docker not ready for primetime by jacques_chester on Sunday August 28, 2016 @04:27PM (#12378358)
That was my hunch too. Thanks. I'll ask more about whether I missed something on the other side of the argument.