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Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by empath75 on Friday August 26, 2016 @12:19PM (#12367253)
I don't understand what kind of malware this is supposed to detect? This only seems relevant when you're using airplane mode, and why wouldn't malware just wait until you went back online before transmitting the data?
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by imron on Friday August 26, 2016 @12:47PM (#12367479)
Let's say you're a journalist meeting with a source.

Let's say a certain three letter agency would like to listen to that conversation in real-time if they could.

Let's say the journalist thinks that by setting his phone to flight mode, the radio is off and he can't be maliciously tracked.

Let's say the three letter agency has various means to connect and listen in on phones in real time if it chooses.

This new smartphone case would then be able to confirm to the journalist that the phone is not sending/receiving radio signals.

Now, that might sound like a far-fetched scenario, but bear in mind that Snowden asked reporters meeting with him to put their phones in his fridge to prevent exactly that scenario from playing out.

It is therefore not surprising that he might play a part in developing a case like this.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by tablehampton on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:15PM (#12367700)
So we assume that an adversary has dropped some malware that can silently enable the radio, activate the microphone, encode the audio stream and transmit it in real-time - and they want to avoid detection by this case.

Well, all they need to do is modify the malware to record the audio to a file and transmit it when the radio is next switched on, perhaps interleaving it with normal radio activity.

As a malware detector, this case is useless.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by deadbunny on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:58PM (#12368021)
That was my immediate thought, if they have access to your phone at that level recording (voice, packets, gps co-ords) to a file then sending it once it has signal would be trivial. It would provide a misguided level of confidence in their security which could lead to exactly the consequences trying to be avoided.

Got a secret meeting? Don't take your bloody phone.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by mentat on Friday August 26, 2016 @03:54PM (#12368868)
Of course not taking your phone is a visible data footprint if you're detected in other ways. Secrecy is a pretty hard problem now.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by philipov on Friday August 26, 2016 @06:48PM (#12369839)
The objective, in this case, is to prevent recording of the proceedings, not keep the very existence of the meeting a secret.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by Zigurd on Friday August 26, 2016 @02:30PM (#12368249)
It has been confirmed that some mobile basebands are, in fact, remotely controllable even when a device is apparently off. It isn't a far-fetched scenario.

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/even-if-theyre-off-...

In this case it was a Motorola device on an iDEN network, probably using a Freescale baseband. But it is likely that most major vendors were persuaded to include similar capabilities and that network providers cooperate in providing special signaling to control these capabilities.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by ddt_Osprey on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:54PM (#12367995)
Not useless. Just less useful.

It pushes the capacity for your adversary to operate into (slightly) slimmer confines, which is a marginal improvement.

Otherwise, your adversary can behave in an unrestrained manner. No?

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by tedunangst on Friday August 26, 2016 @02:12PM (#12368123)
One might also argue that giving a violent prisoner left-handed scissors will slow them down and is therefore a marginal improvement.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by sangnoir on Saturday August 27, 2016 @04:02PM (#12373922)
I can't argue with that: if I had to choose between the two, I'd rather be stabbed by the non-dominant hand. Obviously not being stabbed at all is a much better choice (when available).
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by chakalakasp on Friday August 26, 2016 @02:11PM (#12368121)
I guess. For the kinds of clients who would want this device, this would just be like making it so that you're only a little bit pregnant. You either prevent the eavesdropping or you don't. The only safe tactic is not bring the device anywhere you don't want to be tracked or recorded. Or to technologically prevent it from operating somehow in a way that doesn't rely on verification -- such as taking the battery out, if you can, or putting it in a verified faraday cage that you keep in a soundproof box if you can't. And if you're the kind of person with a life so interesting they need to worry about about phone implants, maybe take battery removability into consideration when you buy the device.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by mSparks on Friday August 26, 2016 @06:54PM (#12369874)
Baseband processors in all mobiles have direct access to the microphone and it is fairly trivial to access remotely. Comes as standard on all stingray devices available to any and all perverts willing to use it.

Only Samsung devices have been shown to give the baseband processor backdoor access to device storage. Afaik.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by robryk on Friday August 26, 2016 @05:20PM (#12369392)
This also detects when the GPS is used. If the phone has GPS and cell radio (for reception and transmission) disabled, it's a lot harder for any malware to figure out its location (not impossible -- there is some research about identifying locations in a metro network using an accelerometer alone).

While it's easy to prevent the phone from recording your conversation (just place it somewhere out of earshot, maybe next to a noise source for the duration of the conversation alone), it's much harder to prevent it from learning where you're going (if you're taking it with you).

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by BurningFrog on Friday August 26, 2016 @04:39PM (#12369149)
That a security measure is not impossible to defeat does not mean it's useless.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by toyg on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:52PM (#12367976)
They would have to know the exact meeting time and would use space on the device, which could be noticed.

This case is not a silver bullet, but it's a useful tool.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by tablehampton on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:58PM (#12368020)
Or they could record to file only when the radio is off, and transmit directly without recording when it is on.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by slg on Friday August 26, 2016 @12:52PM (#12367515)
The next logical question is why is this case better than putting their phones in the fridge?
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by Quequau on Friday August 26, 2016 @12:57PM (#12367556)
Because you can't take the fridge with you on a false trail, place the phone inside at some point before deviating to the true meeting point, and then pull it back out again once the meeting has been completed and sufficient distance has been traveled.

Even some sort of electromagnetic shielding case or bag wouldn't be as convenient (so more likely to be used) or informative.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by Kenji on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:24PM (#12367767)
Yeah. Or have a little metal case with you into which you put your device. Or buy a roll of aluminum foil and just wrap the phone inside it (just spelling this out makes me feel like a conspiracy theory nutter). So many cheap options...
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by chakalakasp on Friday August 26, 2016 @02:14PM (#12368142)
There are fairly cheap little faraday cage forensic bags that LEOs often purchase in bulk. Power off phone, slip phone in, it's not transmitting any more.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by Gracana on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:00PM (#12367588)
The introspection/detection part. That's the only part, actually. It doesn't stop the signals by itself.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by DigitalJack on Friday August 26, 2016 @06:50PM (#12369844)
Using this thing, you will know that you've been compromised if a transmission occurs. Fridge won't tell you that.

Knowing you are compromised, you could prepare disinformation to throw off, embarrass or otherwise humiliate an adversary.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by jefhwite on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:57PM (#12368013)
Wouldn't a faraday cage be effective here? I suppose it doesn't confirm that you are being surveilled, but it would block radio signals.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by mi100hael on Friday August 26, 2016 @02:04PM (#12368061)
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by Stratoscope on Friday August 26, 2016 @11:09PM (#12370752)
In the fridge? Let's hope he knows how far the closest tower is for the journalist's carrier.

My Galaxy Note 4 gets a solid connection on T-Mobile in the fridge, in the oven, in the washer, and in the dryer.

It's in the range of 33ms ping, 45Mbps upload, 24Mbps download in each of those locations.

Why? T-Mobile has a neighborhood tower one short block from home.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by hellogoodbyeeee on Friday August 26, 2016 @11:30PM (#12370812)
The fridge would block the ability of the microphone to pick up sounds, not block the cell tower signal
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by raldi on Friday August 26, 2016 @12:36PM (#12367392)
They're trying to build something that can detect when GPS is on, to protect against phones secretly recording their owners' locations even while in airplane mode.

If it were me, though, I'd just drop the phone into a potato-chip bag.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by gjkood on Friday August 26, 2016 @12:52PM (#12367517)
Or one of these Faraday Cage bags. I wonder if anyone has independently tested these for emissions leakage.

https://www.amazon.com/Faraday-EMP-BLACKOUT®-Prepping-Smartp...

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by dnh44 on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:09PM (#12367660)
Those look remarkably like some anti-static bags that we bought by the thousands in China for less than a dollar a piece. I'll check on Tuesday and post back here.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by dnh44 on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @12:02PM (#12391300)
Well I've tried the bags we have at the office and while they do indeed look the same my phone has no trouble staying connected while inside the bag.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by gjkood on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:40PM (#12367886)
I just spent a week in the Shenzhen Huaqiang Bei electronic malls and I couldn't agree with you more about the pricing. You can do so much better being there physically and negotiating the hell out of things.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by duskwuff on Friday August 26, 2016 @02:12PM (#12368129)
Read the reviews. Multiple users report cell phones working perfectly fine while inside the bag.

As noted by dnh44, these are almost certainly bog-standard antistatic bags, which are not intended to provide any kind of RF shielding.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by gjkood on Friday August 26, 2016 @03:03PM (#12368506)
As all things we buy on the internet, if it seems to be too good to be true... Hence my comment about independent testing/review of such products.

However the concept of Faraday Cages is not new. There are vendors catering to the Law Enforcement market that make these bags to prevent tampering of evidence on confiscated devices.

You just have to find the right ones. I was just showing examples of such products available online.

Caveat Emptor.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by Theodores on Friday August 26, 2016 @05:23PM (#12369416)
The potato chip bag option would have plausible deniability. I would go for a whole lunch bag with sandwich in genuine tin foil as mylar film doesn't seem that thick to me.

Plausible deniability is really important if one expects to be frisked. Traveling in something like cycling gear could be part of the disguise, you can go through special gates at train stations and not be ticket inspected by machine. Nobody expects the guy in fluorescent clothing travelling at 15 mph.

Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by krastanov on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:37PM (#12367864)
GPS locators are passive: only receiving signals, not emitting them.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by raldi on Friday August 26, 2016 @01:46PM (#12367930)
A entire section of the article is devoted to this topic. Ctrl-F "GPS Introspection".
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by johansch on Friday August 26, 2016 @05:03PM (#12369284)
You can't really get massive global PR with a potato-chip bag though.
Re:Bunnie Huang and Edward Snowden’s Malware-Detecting Smart... by e12e on Friday August 26, 2016 @07:00PM (#12369905)
Freedom crisps.