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Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by sp332 on Monday August 22, 2016 @03:10PM (#12338622)
This is really pushing the boundaries of the CAN-SPAM act. You're not allowed to send unsolicited emails. You shouldn't be allowed to pretend that visiting a site is a solicitation.

Edit: I misunderstood the mechanism of collecting the addresses. This isn't skirting "unsolicited mail", but it is circumventing the ban on harvested email addresses.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by jamiesonbecker on Monday August 22, 2016 @03:14PM (#12338649)
> You're not allowed to send unsolicited emails.

Actually, you ARE allowed to send unsolicited email, even commercial (UCE). It has to be clearly labeled, contain the postal address of the sender, and contain unsubscribe links. Also, CAN-SPAM only applies to senders in the U.S. (unfortunately).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003#Applicabi...

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by rbritton on Monday August 22, 2016 @03:59PM (#12338975)
It's pretty amazing the number of senders that do not obey the requirement for a minimal unsubscribe flow:

> Any opt-out mechanism you offer must be able to process opt-out requests for at least 30 days after you send your message. You must honor a recipient’s opt-out request within 10 business days. You can’t charge a fee, require the recipient to give you any personally identifying information beyond an email address, or make the recipient take any step other than sending a reply email or visiting a single page on an Internet website as a condition for honoring an opt-out request. Once people have told you they don’t want to receive more messages from you, you can’t sell or transfer their email addresses, even in the form of a mailing list.

To me it seems more of an honor-based system rather than one there's any enforcement for. Much like the Do Not Call list.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by ianlevesque on Monday August 22, 2016 @04:20PM (#12339123)
There have been a handful of prosecutions, but not nearly enough.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by mike-cardwell on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @03:10AM (#12341923)
"unfortunately" ? Thank God we don't have the CAN-SPAM act in the UK. I'd be receiving unsolicited spam from all sorts of UK businesses if we did.

I don't care if a spam email has an unsubscribe link or the sender is clearly labelled. Once it's received and seen, the damage is done.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by derefr on Monday August 22, 2016 @03:52PM (#12338926)
> CAN-SPAM only applies to senders in the U.S.

Given that SMTP is a relay system, would the first US-soil SMTP gateway machine a message travels through be its legal "sender" (in the way that e.g. the importer of a foreign medical device is liable if it's not FDA-approved)? One would think this would legally force those gateways, when handling foreign-originated spam, to slap their own address on them with their own unsubscribe link, that would—if clicked—then block those messages from coming through that gateway.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by jameshart on Monday August 22, 2016 @04:17PM (#12339108)
Mail is not actually sent over a series of SMTP relays, though. It's basically routed directly to the MX SMTP server for the domain.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by majewsky on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @03:48AM (#12342047)
Except in some corporate intranet setups, but that's not really relevant for this discussion.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by wtbob on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:11AM (#12343406)
> Also, CAN-SPAM only applies to senders in the U.S. (unfortunately).

We could always send gunboats to reduce cities whose citizens send unsolicited emails to the U.S. … /s

More seriously, this does seem like the sort of thing which could be addressed through bilateral or multilateral negotiations, including between the private firms who own the international Internet connexions.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by sp332 on Monday August 22, 2016 @03:50PM (#12338907)
I don't know if I would call it a "relationship" message, but maybe it's a "transactional" message, where serving the webpage counts as the transaction?
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by the_watcher on Monday August 22, 2016 @08:19PM (#12340384)
When I worked somewhere that did a decent amount of email marketing, we were told our abandoned cart emails were not transactional, as there were not actually a part of any kind of transaction (yet). Not sure on the actual status though.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by hoorayimhelping on Monday August 22, 2016 @04:13PM (#12339067)
>You're not allowed to send unsolicited emails.

Sorry, this is completely false information that is easily verifiable by looking at the wikipedia page for the can spam act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003#Sending_b...

>But when sending unsolicited commercial emails, it must be stated that the email is an advertisement or a marketing solicitation.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by arm on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @01:49AM (#12341669)
Sorry, this is completely correct information if you don’t assume that the US in the only country in the world.

For example, Canada’s Bill C-28¹ explicitly prohibits it.

――――――

¹ — http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/canada-s-new-anti-spam-law-ap...

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by oarsinsync on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @02:33AM (#12341816)
Looking at the full context of the quote is useful.

> This is really pushing the boundaries of the CAN-SPAM act. You're not allowed to send unsolicited emails.

The USA is not the only country in the world, but the CAN-SPAM act totally permits unsolicited emails, which is the context of this thread.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by pc86 on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:46AM (#12343647)
> if you don’t assume that the US in the only country in the world.

The US is the only country with a CAN-SPAM Act. Unless Canada has one of those too?

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by downandout on Monday August 22, 2016 @06:25PM (#12339891)
First, CAN-SPAM doesn't outlaw the sending of unsolicited commercial messages - on the contrary, it lays out rules for sending them. Second, in this case, at some point this guy agreed to receive emails from Criteo when entering his email address somewhere. The fact that people don't read TOS before they agree to them does not invalidate them.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by majewsky on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @03:50AM (#12342054)
The question is not a legal one, but a moral one. Of course the TOS are agreed on by the user, but it's still not what they want, so I still consider it unsolicited from a moral POV.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by actsasbuffoon on Monday August 22, 2016 @04:17PM (#12339101)
California and New Jersey have laws that go above and beyond the protections outlined in CAN-SPAM. I used to work for a company that sent spam (I swear, I didn't know until after I'd already accepted the job), and we avoided sending to those states. If more states would adopt laws like this, we could dramatically curtail spam.

As for what constitutes solicitation, I wish it was that simple. In some instances, companies will buy your email address from another company, and they believe that constitutes consent. In other words, you did business with Company Foo, and I did business with Company Foo, so you consented to do business with me. It's insane.

Having been inside one of these businesses, I have three pieces of advice.

First: Mark spam emails as spam when you see them. You only have to get a few of your messages marked as spam to get your IP address blacklisted. You have far more power over spammers than you think. Not only that, but spammers fear this so much that they keep databases of complainers, and they'll leave you alone in the future. Sometimes they'll even share lists of complainers with other companies so they won't risk your wrath.

Spam companies love non-complainers. Even if you don't open the spam, not complaining helps their numbers with the email provider. By not complaining, you're sending a signal to your email provider that this is a good email, and other users would like to receive it. Not only that, they'll remember you as a person who can be relied upon to not complain, so you'll get more spam than other people.

Second: Read EULAs. We did business with some super-shady companies who sold us tons of really invasive user info. One company even sold us the contents of people's email. Not just meta data, we could actually read the content. They don't mention any of this on their site, but it's subtly stated in the EULA. Read them and check for references to sharing your data with business partners.

I've steered clear of some browsers and email clients as a result of vague EULAs that leave the potential for harvesting my data and selling it.

Third: This one is going to be unpopular on Hackernews, but the best way to avoid being fingerprinted by advertisers is to block JavaScript by default. There are bajillions of ways to uniquely identify your computer, right down to having your browser report which fonts you have installed. Almost every single technique relies on Flash, Java, or JavaScript. Ad-blockers help, but they don't catch everything.

I use NoScript to turn off JavaScript by default, and I only enable a site if it seems legitimate and the site is broken without it.

Here's a terrifying list of the things advertisers can do to uniquely identify you without consent and without a cookie. As the article says, disabling JavaScript by default is by far the most effective method for protecting yourself from fingerprinting: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Fingerprinting

It's a little inconvenient, but good security always is. The locks on your front door are inconvenient (what if you lose your key?), but hopefully they're even more inconvenient for would-be intruders.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by codedokode on Monday August 22, 2016 @08:45PM (#12340510)
As a side effect disabling javascript also makes pages load faster, makes browser use less memory, hides advertisements and protects you from popups.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by dingaling on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @03:55AM (#12342072)
> As a side effect disabling javascript also makes pages load faster

Ironically on our rather elderly laptops NoScript actually increases page loading times by a factor of two and that's with the out-of-the-box configuration. I haven't looked to see what pattern-matching algorithms it uses but they're very slow.

Core2 Duo Dell Latitudes.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by codedokode on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @07:43PM (#12348662)
Because it is a browser extension which by itself is quite complicated application. I use builtin JS blocking options in Chromium and didn't notice any slowdown.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 24, 2016 @08:42AM (#12351563)
CAN-SPAM preempts more restrictive state laws with narrow exceptions, so generally the California and New Jersey laws are unenforceable. Those laws, and free m voting them, were a major reason that CAN-SPAM was lobbied for by industry, and that anti-spam activists labelled it a setback that told the industry that they can spam people's inboxes.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by pc86 on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:47AM (#12343661)
Is a company in New York bound by the laws of New Jersey or California? Do consumer protections for an individual in California extend to every company in the US?
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by actsasbuffoon on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:52AM (#12343690)
Yes, you can be sued by a California resident for violating California's spam laws even if you're based in another state.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by Karunamon on Monday August 22, 2016 @05:03PM (#12339427)
the best way to avoid being fingerprinted by advertisers is to block JavaScript by default.

Leaving aside the sheer amount of stuff this will break, you're serving to identify yourself in another way, but perhaps not to an advertiser.

Given the average website, the number of people using a real web browser (i.e. not bots, curl, wget, etc) who don't run JS is going to be absolutely miniscule.

It's kind of like turning on Do Not Track - most people have it off, so you're highlighting yourself by turning it on.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by tombrossman on Monday August 22, 2016 @05:53PM (#12339720)
This topic comes up a lot on HN and my response is always the same. Try NoScript again. Give it a day or two and whitelist the sites you use a lot and trust. You will have a stunningly faster browsing experience and the number of sites that don't work will be surprisingly small.

We have passed a tipping point where all the annoying bullshit that depends on JavaScript to function far outnumbers the random websites that NoScript breaks. LONG time user of it and I just don't have much trouble browsing. It makes the web insanely fast and eliminates most annoyances.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by TeMPOraL on Monday August 22, 2016 @06:26PM (#12339896)
Hear, hear.

I've been using uMatrix for some time (I'm a control freak, I guess) and I support this - you end up whitelisting a few sites here and there (or even just some aspects of those sites, in case of uMatrix), and the Internet becomes overall a much better (and faster) place. The amount of useless JS bloat on-line is staggering, and it hurts me that developers are actually defending this practice. Engineers should know better.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by zer0gravity on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @02:41AM (#12341837)
Just installed NoScript. Thank you!
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by xg15 on Monday August 22, 2016 @07:47PM (#12340233)
Can't say much about DNT, but I think turning off javascript absolutely makes sense.

If you turn it off, they can put you into the "disabled javascript" pool of users. So what?

But if you keep it on, they can query half a dozen APIs and get a much more detailed configuration of your browser. Which lets them put you into a much smaller pool and identify you more confidently.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by ACow_Adonis on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @03:07AM (#12341918)
And what's more, the more of us that turn off the script, the more anonymizing the "disabled javascript" bucket becomes, as well as the increasing the pressure on web developers to stop the js bloat. Win win I say.

I've been surfing forever with noscript, only white listing those domains I need.

Exploding cookies (the add on, not the terrorist device), and an ad blocker, and the internet is quite usable.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by djsumdog on Monday August 22, 2016 @06:50PM (#12340013)
You could use uBlock Origin, Ghostery or a combination of tools that specifically block cross-site tracking and widgets.

It can make the web more usable than globally disabling javascript.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by briandear on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @08:27AM (#12343112)
State specific spam laws wouldn't matter unless the company has a physical nexus within that state. You'd have offshore subsidiaries doing the sending even if all 50 states passed such laws.
Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by actsasbuffoon on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:58AM (#12343745)
This is incorrect. You may read the actual law here: http://www.spamlaws.com/state/ca.shtml

> § 17529.2. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person or entity may not do any of the following:

> (a) Initiate or advertise in an unsolicited commercial e-mail advertisement from California or advertise in an unsolicited commercial e-mail advertisement sent from California.

> (b) Initiate or advertise in an unsolicited commercial e-mail advertisement to a California electronic mail address, or advertise in an unsolicited commercial e-mail advertisement sent to a California electronic mail address.

> (c) The provisions of this section are severable. If any provision of this section or its application is held invalid, that invalidity shall not affect any other provision or application that can be given effect without the invalid provision or application.

tl;dr You may not send unsolicited commercial email to California residents. You are also barred from sending unsolicited commercial email from within the state of California, but this is independent of the first part.

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by erlehmann_ on Monday August 22, 2016 @05:57PM (#12339747)
> I used to work for a company that sent spam (I swear, I didn't know until after I'd already accepted the job)

Did you look for a new job as soon as you knew?

Re:Browsing your website does not mean I want your spam by mildbow on Monday August 22, 2016 @06:09PM (#12339821)
tsk.

The overhead in getting another job is high modulo personal circumstance.

Why not use the helpful comment and try to be non-judgemental?