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Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by somenomadicguy on Sunday August 14, 2016 @12:13PM (#12286135)
Thus the reason I hang up on startup recruiters the moment they say "A peter thiel funded start-up". I'm not sure what is a sadder waste of this amazing braintrust we have in the United States today, all of the advertising start-ups, or sociopathic dreck like Palantir.
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by manigandham on Sunday August 14, 2016 @01:39PM (#12286498)
This is the wrong attitude - there is no "waste" of braintrust. Innovation doesnt work like that, it comes from all over by people working on what they want to work on.

What's wrong with advertising startups? Some of the most valuable companies on this planet are advertising companies because it's an essential part of success for any business.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by erikpukinskis on Sunday August 14, 2016 @02:36PM (#12286719)
Most people in most startups are not "working on what they want to work on" they are working on what their boss wants them to work on.

Heck, I would wager that >50% of startup employees are not even doing the work they think is most important for the success of the startup. They are doing the work their boss (who by definition is further removed from the facts) thinks is most important.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if >50% of startup employees are doing work they know is not important for the success of the startup.

That's what happens when you run a command and control organization. You lose >50% of your output, in exchange for guaranteed alignment of whatever is leftover. As long as you pay people <50% of what they are worth you can still make money.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by jomamaxx on Sunday August 14, 2016 @05:09PM (#12287345)
"their boss (who by definition is further removed from the facts)"

While I agree that poor leadership is common, I strongly beg to differ with the reasoning that leadership is removed from the facts.

Friend - 'Engineering' is not 'the facts', or not usually.

Customers, business opportunities, markets, investors - these are usually the 'facts' in a business, and sometimes it means doing things that don't seem obvious to a coder.

I've never seen something great come to fruition that involved a linear progress from 'need' to 'product'. It's usually messy, and involves all sorts of actors.

For example, hacking together a 'throw away' something to impress a customer or to ensure they believe in the capacity of the company would likely been seen as a 'waste' from an ops perspective, but it's certainly not if the business situation calls for it.

Sometimes the facts are in the code, but this is much less often than one would realize.

That said, Palantir is a little scammy. They're just CGI or Accenture by another name.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by erikpukinskis on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @01:30PM (#12299023)
> Friend - 'Engineering' is not 'the facts', or not usually.

Not sure why you're referencing engineering? I didn't say anything about that. Not all startup employees are engineers.

> Customers, business opportunities, markets, investors

Customer support is going to have more facts about customers, investors are going to have more facts about investment terms and opportunities, marketing team is going to have more facts about markets, biz dev is going to have more facts about business relationships.

Management is not going to have more facts in any area than anyone really. Their job isn't to understand what's happening in detail, it's to maintain the structure of communication which allows different parts of the company to make good decisions.

If management starts thinking they know more than their employee on a topic, something has gone terribly wrong. They hired someone who doesn't know what they are doing, or they are preventing information from flowing to where it is needed, or they are just being hubristic.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by manigandham on Sunday August 14, 2016 @03:39PM (#12286978)
What? The point is that you can't force people into or away from certain industries. There's nothing wrong with advertising startups as the parent poster seems to think.

How much freedom you have within a company, the power structure and the actual composition of the work is a completely different discussion.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by jgalt212 on Sunday August 14, 2016 @04:13PM (#12287140)
> Most people in most startups are not "working on what they want to work on" they are working on what their boss wants them to work on.

That's a rather naive statement. should be: s/startups/organizations/g

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by erikpukinskis on Sunday August 14, 2016 @04:21PM (#12287167)
Most of my employment experience is within startups, so I am just making claims about what I know.
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by somenomadicguy on Monday August 22, 2016 @07:40AM (#12335550)
I guess I look at waste because of the motivation. The only motivator in the Silicon Valley, in the end, is greed. Even if it begins with wanting to change the world, or wanting to work on cool challenges, $3k/month rent inevitably leads to "omfg, gonna be homeless, gotta make lots of money".

My time in refugee camps teaching Syrian music to Syrian refugees had more of an impact on the world than any of the companies where I've worked.

When you were a little boy, did you ever say "Mommy, when I grow up I'm going to sell banner ads?"

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by nitrogen on Sunday August 14, 2016 @04:53PM (#12287289)
You are kind of begging the question with your second paragraph. You argue that advertising is valuable because it's essential, but advertising is only essential because of its own existence. That doesn't make it valuable to society's broader goals.
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by manigandham on Monday August 15, 2016 @05:49AM (#12289463)
> society's broader goals.

What are these exactly? Society is a summation of it's people and the success of the ventures they start are a big part of that.

> You argue that advertising is valuable because it's essential, but advertising is only essential because of its own existence.

What's that even mean? Lookup the definition of marketing and you'll see that connecting product information to consumers is needed to actually sell anything, and advertising is the distribution of this message. It's not only valuable, it's critical and necessary for business success.

You might not like being interrupted by ads (especially today's incarnation of ads online) but that is entirely separate from the concept of advertising itself. Saying that advertising isn't valuable is a gross misunderstanding of what advertising actually is.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by Spooky23 on Sunday August 14, 2016 @05:04PM (#12287331)
Advertising is a zero-sum game. Advancements only improve the product, there is little/no change in spending from the point of view of society.
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by nitrogen on Sunday August 14, 2016 @05:49PM (#12287503)
I might venture to say it's negative sum, because the need to advertise in order to compete diverts resources away from positive sum activities (R&D).
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by solipsism on Sunday August 14, 2016 @10:54PM (#12288369)
"zero sum" doesn't mean "zero net benefit". It's about competition, not utility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by nitrogen on Monday August 15, 2016 @12:16AM (#12288601)
I know, I'm saying that one company'd ad spend negates their competitor's, and vice versa, so the more everyone spends, the more everyone loses. That is non-zero-sum, in the negative direction.
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by seizethecheese on Sunday August 14, 2016 @05:21PM (#12287407)
Ad Hominem attacks like this add very little value to the discussion.
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by dredmorbius on Sunday August 14, 2016 @11:43PM (#12288508)
That's not an ad hominem attack, it's a statement based on reputation.

Ad hominem, properly, is based on an irrelevant characteristic of the person being attacked. "I won't work for a Peter Thiel startup because he wears white shoes after Labour Day", or "... because he mixes stripes and solids".

Stating that he's got a track record of founding and backing ventures with a net-negative social value, or which simply waste talent, is absolutely spot on.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by whamlastxmas on Monday August 15, 2016 @04:13PM (#12293058)
>founding and backing ventures with a net-negative social value

According to his Wikipage, the major things he's done: Paypal, Facebook, Y Combinator, and a couple investment/VC/Angel ventures. None of these are net-negative social value in my opinion, or at least not any more so than virtually any other big business on the planet. He's also backed an impressive number of philanthropic endeavors.

Your comment comes across as someone's angry at Thiel because of the Gawker lawsuit and/or Trump endorsement.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by dredmorbius on Monday August 15, 2016 @05:06PM (#12293453)
The factual value of whether or a relevant comparison is justified or not is open to question. That would turn the attack into an unjustified one.

But not ad hom.

I'm not convinced of PayPal and Facebook's net social value. They're quite mixed, though I'll allow transformative.

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by Aelinsaar on Sunday August 14, 2016 @01:27PM (#12286432)
You should see huge sectors of the pharmaceutical and petrochemical industries, you'd weep.
Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by dredmorbius on Sunday August 14, 2016 @11:46PM (#12288517)
Howso?

Both of those involve actual research, which is to say, trying the impossible and unknown, to discover the possible and knowable.

Though I'm also aware that there's a tremendous difference between chasing markets, which gives you drugs such as Viagra, or lifetime (type-II) diabetes management, rather than, say, wiping out tropical disease or promoting diet which would avoid diabetes in the first place.

But what did you have in mind?

Re:How Silicon Valley's Palantir Wired Washington by Aelinsaar on Monday August 15, 2016 @09:13AM (#12290169)
Chasing markets, while antibiotic resistance grows for one.