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Re:The brave new world of robots and lost jobs by simonh on Friday August 12, 2016 @08:07AM (#12274912)
I fail to see how it's the employer screwing anyone over. Should automation be outlawed? What kinds of automation? It's a problem that society needs to deal with, sure, and some of that might involve some regulation of automation, or some social support for manual jobs, but there's nothing inherently immoral about automation. If a company reduces it's work force through automation there's nothing immoral about that. If they don't do it, someone will start up a rival company that automates from the get-go and drive them out of business.

This is what's killing the French economy right now because their labour laws mean employers are biased against hiring new workers. If they have to lay them off it costs a fortune. So existing French companies are locked into high cost structures and are being driven up against the wall by competitors with higher levels of automation on the one hand and massive redundancy costs on the other.

I am not in any way arguing for unregulated market forces and let the devil take the hindmost. We do need a balanced and sustainable solution that allows business to thrive and gainfully employ the population and automation is making that harder, but the key word there is sustainable. A French model that tries to freeze the current labour economy in aspic isn't sustainable.

Re:The brave new world of robots and lost jobs by klenwell on Friday August 12, 2016 @09:04AM (#12275244)
> I fail to see how it's the employer screwing anyone over. Should automation be outlawed?

I would look to the automation in scheduling in the service sector over the last couple decades for a pretty clear example of employers screwing over labor. Sure, you can make a good argument, as you do, that it's probably more amoral than immoral and the inevitable result of a race condition among the competition. But it's hard not to read articles like these articles in the New York Times[0][1][2][3] and not feel like employees are getting screwed pretty hard and that it's only the plausible deniability that the appeal to market forces offers that allows executives in these organization and politicians in the communities where these people live not to see the pernicious effects of their policies.

I know some politicians have begun to take note and offer some sympathy and protections.[4] But I think that now that full automation is gaining more steam, finding that balanced and sustainable solution most of us would probably like to see is only going to get harder. In the meantime, we're seeing in this election very clearly how the some (many?) of the displaced have decided to articulate their solution to the problem.

[0] http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/starbucks-w... [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/business/late-to-bed-early... [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/opinion/manipulating-the-w... [3] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/business/starbucks-falls-s... [4] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/business/retailers-scrutin...

Re:The brave new world of robots and lost jobs by CodeCube on Friday August 12, 2016 @09:29AM (#12275437)
These stories are heartbreaking to hear ... I sometimes wonder what the answer might be. Perhaps regulation that puts limits on a) the lead time employees must be given for a schedule, or b) limits on how chaotic a schedule can be (ie. generally mornings, or generally evenings), or c) a max # of hours between shifts to allow employees proper rest ??

You're right, this does feel like the employees are getting screwed ... especially when they can't even commit to anything else like school because of the chaotic nature of their schedule.

Re:The brave new world of robots and lost jobs by cousin_it on Friday August 12, 2016 @08:13AM (#12274955)
How does outlawing automation make employers biased against hiring new workers?
Re:The brave new world of robots and lost jobs by simonh on Monday August 15, 2016 @05:31AM (#12289413)
I didn't say that it does. However one of the justifications given by the French left for high redundancy payments is to compensate workers if their jobs are taken by automation, so they are related issues.
Re:The brave new world of robots and lost jobs by crdoconnor on Friday August 12, 2016 @09:09AM (#12275275)
>This is what's killing the French economy right now because their labour laws mean employers are biased against hiring new workers.

No, that's just what French employers like to whinge about the most in the business press.

French labour laws are unique to France. France isn't the only country in Europe suffering from economic malaise - most of them are. The unifying feature is EU budgetary rules - austerity - not the fact that French employers can't use the threat of firing as a terror tactic against their workers.