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Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by r00fus on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @01:52PM (#12256428)
So what constitutes a digital currency? I mean, I've heard arguments that BTC is really an asset being traded. Didn't see that

Also: looks like proposed fee has been increased to $5000 from $500 (didn't look for other details).

Amusing that legalese is essentially similar to code, but without variable declarations (ie, $digitalcurrency := "currency that's traded online, including but not restricted to BTC, etc") it's a bit of a nightmare to parse.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @02:00PM (#12256501)
From the proposed law:

“Digital currency” means any digital representation of value that can be digitally traded and is used to facilitate the sale, purchase, and exchange of goods, services, or other digital representations of value among its users. Digital currency does not include fiat currency, e-money, or currency value of which was fixed by its issuer to the value of a fiat currency.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by r00fus on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @05:50PM (#12257955)
So do things like Microsoft points or rewards work the same way? What about stocks/bonds?

I find it amusing that the exempt e-money while targeting "digital currency". What exactly is the distinction?

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @06:15PM (#12258096)
> So do things like Microsoft points or rewards work the same way?

Well, they might be digital currency under the definition, but that kind of rewards program appears to be excluded from the (rather lengthy) definition of "digital currency business", which would mean the regulations would generally not apply to them.

> What about stocks/bonds?

What about them?

> I find it amusing that the exempt e-money while targeting "digital currency". What exactly is the distinction?

Again, from the proposed bill at the link:

“E-money” means a digital representation of fiat currency used to electronically transfer value denominated in fiat currency.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by lijason on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @08:58PM (#12258783)
>I find it amusing that the exempt e-money while targeting "digital currency".

I think this is because financial institutions dealing with fiat currencies already have significant regulations that is not intended to apply to.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by jsprogrammer on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @03:49PM (#12257269)
Missing is a definition of what "value" is.

My Bitcoin is a digital representation of the bits needed to solve a particular block. It doesn't represent value, but a numerical solution to a mathematical problem.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by dogecoinbase on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @03:57PM (#12257316)
Playing dumb only makes you look dumb. Judges/legislators/basically everyone can see right through this kind of pretense and aren't particularly sympathetic to the "b...but I'm technically correct!" stance.
Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by smokeyj on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @04:45PM (#12257592)
> and aren't particularly sympathetic to the "b...but I'm technically correct!" stance.

That stance is called the rule of law and being technically correct matters. That's the whole point of that court thing.

http://time.com/money/4421955/bitcoin-miami-judge-money-laun...

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @05:47PM (#12257932)
> the rule of law and being technically correct matters

As one of many factors. The rule of law does not suspend human reason and common sense. SCOTUS recently ruled in favour of original intent over a strictly structural in an ACA case, where the later would have meant literally interpreting a likely typo [1].

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/obamacare...

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by jsprogrammer on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @04:05PM (#12257355)
Technically correct is the only kind; no pretense needed.

>Playing dumb only makes you look dumb.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @06:03PM (#12258042)
> Missing is a definition of what "value" is.

Laws typically don't incorporate definitions of words used when they aren't used in a special sense in the law.

> My Bitcoin is a digital representation of the bits needed to solve a particular block.

No doubt.

> It doesn't represent value,

The "X needed for Y" have value to the extent Y has value; I would suggest that there is considerable evidence which might be marshaled that solving Bitcoin blocks has value.

So, I would think that your explanation of what Bitcoin does represent supports the conclusion that it is a digital representation of value, not that it is not such a representation.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by jsprogrammer on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @06:52PM (#12258262)
The word is very special to this law as it is the core word defining "Digital Currency":

>“Digital currency” means any digital representation of value

You can't classify something as digital currency without knowing what value means or how to measure it.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by dragonwriter on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @06:55PM (#12258270)
> The word is very special to this law as it is the core word defining "Digital Currency":

It may be important to this law, but that doesn't mean that it is used specially (as in, in any but its most contextually-obvious general-use sense) in the law.

I mean, the meaning of "is" is also very important to the meaning of most laws, but is rarely defined in the enactment.

> You can't classify something as digital currency without knowing what value means

True, but that doesn't take a non-standard, law-specific definition.

> or how to measure it.

Untrue -- quantification of value is not relevant to the definition.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by jsprogrammer on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @08:02PM (#12258564)
If you show me a method of quantification, I can derive the definition.

Value is being discussed (even though you appear to be using an unrevealed definition) as a quantity (maybe, I am wrong, and it is not a quantity), which means there must be a way to quantify it.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by comex on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @09:12PM (#12258834)
Are you seriously trying to argue that Bitcoin is not a representation of value, or are you merely suggesting that there might be more ambiguous cases?
Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by jsprogrammer on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @09:45PM (#12258978)
I'm saying my coins were mined and only represent a solution to a vey specific problem.

For someone to claim that the numbers I hold represent something else, is an error.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by shepardrtc on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @04:01PM (#12257334)
It represents the resource and infrastructure investment needed to calculate the solution to a block. The resource being electricity, and the infrastructure being the computer and any peripherals needed (i.e. expensive video card).
Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by Spivak on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @04:43PM (#12257578)
It represents the resource and infrastructure investment needed to produce the note. The resources being ink and paper, and the infrastructure being the machinery, labor, electricity, gas and trucks needed.

You're not really arguing that currency derives its value from the material cost of producing it, are you? Because then everything is a currency. Modern currencies are special precisely because they have much more value than their material cost.

Re:An act to amend Financial and Corporations Codes relating... by milcron on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @04:49PM (#12257616)
Legalese does have variable declarations, they just look a little different and are used more sparingly. For example, look at section 17 of Facebook's terms of service: https://www.facebook.com/terms

The interesting part about legalese is that you get to argue with the compiler.