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Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by moogly on Monday August 08, 2016 @03:20AM (#12245972)
Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years. The role and political power of the head of state (be it Prime Minister/Chancellor or President, or a combination — doesn't matter) should be well-defined in the constutition (which of course needs changing). I don't really see any loopholes here... I find that argument to be a red herring.

As you say, in some countries, the official (purely symbolic) head of state has no real power (pointless in other words). That's OK-ish. I'd rather not have a symbolic president. But the main point is to not make the position hereditary.

Germany's president, whilst largely ceremonial, actually has some (residual) power by the way, but it's a 5-year term. Not elected by the people, however, which is a shame. For example, Finland's president is.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by twblalock on Monday August 08, 2016 @03:28AM (#12246003)
On the other hand, consider the example of France. The fourth republic had a symbolic president, and the fifth republic has a very powerful president, because DeGaulle demanded executive power as a condition of assuming the presidency during the Algerian crisis of the late 1950s. That's why the fourth republic ended and the fifth republic began -- DeGaulle had a new constitution written.

The situation in Japan is pretty stable. Why mess with success? And if the emperor has no power, why does it matter if the position is hereditary?

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by Someone on Monday August 08, 2016 @03:44AM (#12246074)
The cage may be golden, but it still is immoral to lock up a family in it.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by moogly on Monday August 08, 2016 @03:56AM (#12246124)
As you yourself say, the situation in Japan is pretty stable. The events in France you mention was during wartime, in the lead-up to what could be called "colonial collapse". Hardly comparable.

It matters because a hereditary head of state position (actually, any governmental/establishmentarian position) is a terrible symbol in what should be an egalitarian society, no matter if you have political power or not. I don't know how to put this more succinctly.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by twblalock on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:10AM (#12246172)
It may be a terrible symbol, but it seems like people get over it, if they even care very much. Constitutional monarchies, such as the Nordic countries, are among the most egalitarian countries in the world. Japan is egalitarian, both in terms of how the Japanese view their society, and how the wealth is distributed -- they are very close to European countries in that respect, and far more egalitarian than the US.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by moogly on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:21AM (#12246214)
Yes, I'm from Sweden. I consider "our" monarchy to be a ignominious wart, ceremonial or not. We should always strive to improve society.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by zeveb on Monday August 08, 2016 @02:58PM (#12250058)
> It matters because a hereditary head of state position (actually, any governmental/establishmentarian position) is a terrible symbol in what should be an egalitarian society, no matter if you have political power or not.

Why should society be egalitarian? Nature isn't.

Why shouldn't society recognise the heirs of great men specially?

I think that the ideal government has voices for the great mass of the people; for the magnates; and for a monarch. The U.K. system — until Tony Blair destroyed it — was good for exactly this, although the removal of the Lords' ability to block legislation, and the addition of life peers were recent mistakes.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by cmdkeen on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:17AM (#12246199)
Except stability can be used to breed stability. France being on the Fifth Republic makes it considerably easier to argue for a Sixth Republic, and with Marine Le Pen doing rather well in the polls that isn't necessarily a good idea. Traditions have their place in that they become ingrained within the populace and considerably harder to shift.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by talideon on Monday August 08, 2016 @09:38AM (#12247608)
Not really: people can point at the stability of the Fifth Republic and compare it against the previous regimes, which were quite the opposite. That creates a lot of inertia against scrapping a system of Republican government that currently fundamentally still works.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by kiba on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:05AM (#12246150)
I don't know why we should be bike-shedding about something of absolutely zero consequence to the system of governance.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by talideon on Monday August 08, 2016 @09:33AM (#12247556)
> The fourth republic had a symbolic president, and the fifth republic has a very powerful president, because DeGaulle demanded executive power as a condition of assuming the presidency during the Algerian crisis of the late 1950s. That's why the fourth republic ended and the fifth republic began -- DeGaulle had a new constitution written.

It's a bit more complicated than that, to be fair. A big part of de Gaulle's motivation for the semi-presiential system of the Fifth Republic was due to the instability of the parliamentary system of the Third and Fourth Republics. Whatever else you might say about de Gaulle, the Fifth Republic has been remarkably stable and orderly compared to the regimes that preceded it after the revolution.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by mehwoot on Monday August 08, 2016 @03:38AM (#12246050)
Australia voted against the chance to replace its constitutional monarchy because of ambiguities and uncertainties about these questions. People know what they are getting with the existing systems and the constitutional monarchs have no real power. If you're changing that you have to be very careful.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by twblalock on Monday August 08, 2016 @03:51AM (#12246104)
Judging by the results of the last election, the Queen is probably more popular in Australia than any of the party leaders. But I suspect that Australia, and many other commonwealth countries, will vote to become republics after Prince Charles becomes king.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by snowwrestler on Monday August 08, 2016 @01:06PM (#12249232)
Political figures with little real power are almost always more popular than those who do wield real power.

Even the same person can see a big difference depending on the popular perception of their power--see Hillary Clinton's favorability rating after she resigned as Secretary of State vs. now when she is running for President.

If Charles, as king, tries to stick his nose in things, he will be unpopular. But if he remains a distant figurehead, I bet he will still be more popular than the elected politicians in Australia.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by celticninja on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:29AM (#12246237)
What if he skips it and William is crowned instead?
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by daemin on Monday August 08, 2016 @06:23AM (#12246621)
That would only occur if Prince Charles was dead.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by sverige on Monday August 08, 2016 @07:19AM (#12246829)
Not true. He divorced and remarried which makes him ineligible for the crown.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by andrewla on Monday August 08, 2016 @11:00AM (#12248285)
This is specifically untrue in regards to parallels to Edward VIII; there the issue was that Wallis Simpson was divorced with ex-husbands still living, which at the time, the Church of England did not allow. Charles remarried long after Diana had died, and so is not subject to this restriction.

I'm not intimately familiar with British law, and there may be other reasons why his divorce would make him ineligible, but it would not be for the same reasons that Edward was considered controversial.

Also, as regards Henry VIII and divorce, apparently he used the power of the newly created Church of England to annul his marriages, rather than actually get divorced.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by DomBlack on Monday August 08, 2016 @10:55AM (#12248250)
Source? I'm interested into reading why - given Henry VIII.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by daemin on Monday August 08, 2016 @08:51AM (#12247303)
I thought Henry VIII did a thing to make divorce permissible for kings and prices? Is there an official place where the succession is listed and laws detailed?
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by Maultasche on Monday August 08, 2016 @02:33PM (#12249881)
Henry VIII was primarily concerned about himself and producing an heir. He did what he did solely to remove the obstacles that he faced to achieve this goal. All his actions dealt with his marriages on a case-by-case basis, and did not establish some sort of divorce legal precedent.

His first wife wasn't giving him male children and she was approaching the end of her childbearing years, so he searched for an excuse to annul his marriage (on the basis it wasn't a valid marriage in the first place). Divorce was out of the question.

When the church administration in Rome didn't support him, he found excuses to break away and found his own church. In fact, the only real difference in the Anglican church in the early years was that Henry was the head of the church instead of the Pope. Anyone who didn't support this view was removed from the church or executed. Later on, the Anglican church evolved in a different direction under more Protestant-minded leaders.

Only two of Henry's marriages were annulled. The very first annulment happened after he had been married for many years and was legally the most questionable. However, he was the law at that point, so he made it happen. The second annulment was more of a typical annulment, and happened when he had only been married for a very short time (a couple months) and was apparently quite uninterested in his new wife.

His second and fifth wives were executed for adultery. The charges were entirely fabricated for Anne Boleyn, but they were probably actually true for Catherine Howard.

The third wife died of natural causes and the sixth wife was still alive and married when Henry died.

So while it may look like Henry made divorce OK for English kings, he technically did not divorce anyone. He either found excuses to have the marriages annulled or they were ended by the deaths of his wives.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by moogly on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:04AM (#12246147)
Maybe I am cynical but are you sure they didn't vote against it because they like "traditions", pretty parades and hand-waving and think princes and princesses are quaint and fun and secretly in their hearts they wish they could be one?

I do live in a 1000-year-old constitutional monarchy after all and that's the pro arguments I tend to hear.

"Good for tourism" is another one.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by cmdkeen on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:32AM (#12246253)
Traditions and pretty parades make for exceptional soft power opportunities, something the UK punches far above its weight in. Getting a visit from the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge was probably the one force that could outshine a visit from President Obama. Getting a state visit from the Queen is part of major diplomatic wrangling, she doesn't just pick a country and go "that seems like a nice place to visit".

Edward VII played a large role in setting the conditions for the Entente Cordial, in large part by partying a lot in France - activities a politician could never get away with even today. That cultural and ambassadorial role set the scene for the end to a 1000 years of Anglo-French conflict. More recently the current Queen has played major roles in healing the divisions of conflict, most recently with her trip to the Republic of Ireland.

Elderly politicians are still divisive in their election, regardless of whether they're elected by the public or some body. Their actions have to be viewed through the prism of political cynicism and the potential for advancing the interests of their party. Whereas a 90 year old woman who still carries out a punishing schedule of public duties presents a far more inspiring example of duty and loyalty. If no-one voted for you then you are beholden to no-one.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by gumby on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:42AM (#12246289)
Cynical you may be, but your case doesn't apply to Australia (I can understand your perspective though!).

The Australian constitutional referendum was cleverly constructed to keep the monarchy. TWO republican options were offered in order to split the republican side, and both were engineered for short-term aggrandizement of politicians rather than give the country a sound constitution. So a "first, do no harm" strategy ended up with the most votes.

I think a system like the Germans have is pretty reasonable (though more complicated than Australia needs with only a handful of states none with a huge amount of autonomy). Then again, Australia really only needs a head of state to appoint a PM and greet visiting potentates. Apart from that there isn't much need for a GG. Oh and to consume fancy bird feathers.

Like many I chose "The changes on offer are worse than no change at all."

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by simonbyrne on Monday August 08, 2016 @06:57AM (#12246744)
Actually, only one option was offered at the referendum [1] (president selected by 2/3 majority of parliament). Various options were considered at an earlier constitutional convention, but only 1 was on the ballot.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_republic_referendum...

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by gumby on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @12:32AM (#12252623)
Thanks, I should be more careful about posting in the middle of the night.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by twblalock on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:51AM (#12246319)
The problem is, there are likely to be multiple competing proposals, and even if they aren't on the ballot at the same time, they create a lot of uncertainty. Many voters will choose to avoid that uncertainty by voting to keep the monarchy.

At this point, the monarchy is the default position, and I think it will stay that way until the monarch does something to piss off the majority of the Australian people.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by moogly on Monday August 08, 2016 @05:01AM (#12246350)
Thanks for the info! Had no idea about this.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by gumby on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:45AM (#12246299)
Also, FWIW: My grandmother held on almost to 100 in the hopes of getting a letter from the Queen (telegrams were already gone by then). She saw no inconsistency in that desire and her otherwise rather socialist, republican sentiments.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by twblalock on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:13AM (#12246184)
> "Good for tourism" is another one.

Nobody goes to Australia to see the Queen.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by zeveb on Monday August 08, 2016 @02:55PM (#12250038)
Maybe Australia should add a hereditary upper house, then.

Frankly, I think we could do worse then to add some hereditary peers to our republican government.

Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by neximo64 on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @05:09AM (#12253391)
You do know the upper house in the UK is made not only of Hereditary peers but professionals or experts in their respective fields. They are of course nominated and appointed instead of being elected - but that sounds silly to have actual professionals & scientists in the decision making process of making laws.
Re:Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Th... by wtbob on Monday August 08, 2016 @03:54AM (#12246115)
> Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years.

And generally, one sees that it's been a mistake.

A constitutional monarch can be a good defense against certain types of democratic failure.