News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by erlehmann_ on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @06:48PM (#12177055)
Just never – ever – visit UAE again.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by cup on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:02PM (#12177131)
I like the UAE.

As long as you don't break their laws the experience is fine. To be honest, I'm more frightened of going to America as a non-white person where even obeying the laws can result in death.

Edit: If you disagree with my post please add to the conversation rather than just down-voting.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by erlehmann_ on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:14PM (#12177205)
Referring to racial discrimination in the west as reaction to allegations of human rights abuse is a quite old technique: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

Edit: The rhetorical device is called a “whataboutism”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism. The fallacy involved is called “to quoque” – a special case of an “ad hominem” argument, i.e. attacking the speaker and not the content. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by upofadown on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @08:43PM (#12177622)
There was no attempt to excuse human rights abuses in the post you are responding to. Only a comment about visiting such places vs the US while brown.

In general despotic regimes love visitors who are willing to keep their opinions about the local political situation to themselves no matter what sort of person they are. Places like the US tend to be indifferent to the political beliefs of visitors and as a result any local racial biases will be applied fairly to those visiting.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by hueving on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:16PM (#12177216)
The chances of you dieing from law enforcement acting in a racist manner are vanishingly small and it is still illegal.

The uae condones killing people for being gay as a matter of policy. Don't expect much more than downvotes when you attempt to portray as the US being worse in that comparison.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by enraged_camel on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:29PM (#12177286)
The difference of course is that one can hide the fact that one is gay. It's not so easy to hide that one is black.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by erlehmann_ on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:53PM (#12177410)
Which might be one reason why they need surveillance. For many people, even a simple web search might turn up stuff that could get them arrested. For this reason, I have decided not to visit countries where some of the content on web sites I am responsible for is illegal.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by hueving on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @11:35PM (#12178173)
The difference of course is that one is discrimination based on law, while the other is a minority of bad actors acting illegally.

>It's not so easy to hide that one is black.

Sure it is. Wear a burka every time you are in public. This suggestion is also as ridiculous as suggesting that people hide the fact that they are gay.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by brokenmachine on Thursday July 28, 2016 @01:28AM (#12178491)
> Wear a burka every time you are in public. This suggestion is also as ridiculous as suggesting that people hide the fact that they are gay.

So let me get this right:

You are comparing the ridiculousness of a black person having to wear a burka in the US to avoid being shot, versus the ridiculousness of a gay person having to hide the fact that they are gay while in the UAE?

I'm sorry, it just doesn't sound as ridiculous to me to expect someone to take care not to utter the words, "I am gay" while in a country where being gay can get you legally killed, as opposed to the ridiculousness of a black person having to wear a burka in the US to avoid being shot illegally.

Being black in the US is legal, and being shot for being a black person in the US is uncommon. The burden of having to wear a burka all the time lest your blackness be discovered is large.

Being gay in the UAE is illegal and punishable by death. The burden of not saying certain particular words to expose your gayness is small.

Ergo, the black guy having to wear a burka option is clearly more ridiculous.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by enraged_camel on Thursday July 28, 2016 @07:14AM (#12179544)
>>Being black in the US is legal, and being shot for being a black person in the US is uncommon.

That's true, although you also run the risk of being choked/tasered to death.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by benologist on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:19PM (#12177236)
Indonesia banned their women from working in the UAE and 20 of their neighbors because of the abuse, maiming and killing by their employers and judicial systems.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/06/asia/indonesia-migrant-wor...

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by euske on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @08:53PM (#12177664)
What you probably don't know is that America is a very big and complex country. It's so big that you can love one part and hate the other part at the same time.

It's so complex that even its government is not entirely a single rock. There are avid defenders of human rights as well as evil masters in its government. Somehow they are both coexisting. That's how big America is.

I'm non-white and non-American and I certainly hate some ugly parts of it. But I have mixed feeling to America. I guess it's a kind of feeling that many people have towards the country.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by flukus on Friday July 29, 2016 @01:46AM (#12185202)
What you probably don't know is that this describes just about every country, even some of the tiny pacific island ones.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by imbeau on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @09:36PM (#12177792)
One of the more accurate descriptions of America that I've seen. It's truly a country of contradictions.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by ethanbond on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:13PM (#12177199)
There's not even a way to frame a disagreement. Your statement is just intellectually dishonest. You can die obeying the laws anywhere as a person of any race.

America has problems with racial violence, but your comment indicates a total disconnect from reality in pretty much every way.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by Olscore on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:32PM (#12177298)
Your comment shows the level of misinformation and reputation damage done by media and various social movements. America is safe for all law-abiding persons. Not only do I disagree with your comment, but I find it offensive that you would propagate the myth. It's damaging and unsubstantiated.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by proksoup on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:58PM (#12177429)
> America is safe for all law-abiding persons

Your comment shows the level of misinformation and reputation damage done by media and various social movements. Not only do I disagree with your comment, but I find it offensive that you would propagate the myth. It's damaging and unsubstantiated.

"why did you shoot me?" "I don't know" [1]

[1] https://mobile.twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/7566992798261...

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by Olscore on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @08:16PM (#12177522)
You going to base an entire argument on one example?
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by oldmanjay on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @08:30PM (#12177576)
You are the one who said America is safe for all law-abiding citizens. One example invalidates your claim handily.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by Olscore on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @08:42PM (#12177616)
Then we can argue about the definition of safe, or the reasonable expectation of safety. But it seems that Hacker News would rather point to one example which apparently "invalidates" the claim "handily". What do you consider safe then? If you are determined to argue based on one example; Do you not take a risk starting a business? Do you not take a risk eating foods? Do you not take a risk driving?

There are reasonable mistakes made in the course of living and of any action. So if you want to exaggerate the claim of one (or even a few) examples to the point of making it appear as an epidemic in America; then I will hold you to a higher standard than the half-assed arguments that I see here. Many people engaged with these narratives are grossly misrepresenting legitimate claims of police brutality or racial discrimination. If you cannot be honest in debate, then I would also not expect the same to be honest in any proposed solution. Blatant misrepresentation by so many; it's disgusting.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by analog31 on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @10:25PM (#12177948)
If we can argue about the definition of safe, then "America is safe" is meaningless. Why don't you help us out by defining how you measure safety, and "law abiding" for that matter. Is anybody in the US rigorously law-abiding? Based on what evidence?
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by throwaway-hn123 on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @09:26PM (#12177757)
You're getting a bit hysterical. All that's happened is that people have shown your claim to be false.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by throwaway-hn123 on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:51PM (#12177402)
> America is safe for all law-abiding persons.

This is patently not true. You can blame social media, or SJW's or whatever, but it is not true, except in the minds of the alt-right.

[dead]
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by throwaway-hn123 on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @09:23PM (#12177749)
Yes, the person using a throwaway account says that your statement is patently false. And as you attacked the only thing you could attack, I assume you know that as well, "buddy"!
[dead]
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by throwaway-hn123 on Thursday July 28, 2016 @07:52AM (#12179648)
> Remember my name buddy, I won't remember yours.

Sure, I will remember your name, Olsco. My name isn't hard to remember - it's Away; Throw Away.

> Nice astro-turfing in your comment history

Do you not even know what astroturfing is? Keep attacking my HN handle - just shows that you know your statement was patently, absurdly and almost hilariously false.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by johnnyhillbilly on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @08:29PM (#12177573)
I try to stay away from the US after the story of John Kristoffer Larsgard. Due process, my ass.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by tome on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:15PM (#12177213)
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by JabavuAdams on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:19PM (#12177241)
I am disgusted by the race and policing problems in the US, but you have to have some perspective.

I've never had a problem as a half-black Canadian business traveler. That doesn't mean I'm not anxious.

All though the US may legitimately seem callous and murderous to those on the sharp end of its foreign policy, there are a whole lot of Americans who take this freedom thing seriously. More important, there is a culture of free speech and of challenging government.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by erlehmann_ on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:49PM (#12177397)
I think an important difference is that the victims of most US actions like abduction, imprisonment without trial, torture or assassinations are not US citizens – and it is often done in a foreign country. Because of that, it does not stifle political debate.

Example: The current US administration apparently has a “kill list” for enemies of the US government that they plan to assassinate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix

I find such a thing scary and unethical. Yet, as I understand it, domestic political opponents of US politicians do not have to fear torture, disappearance, or imprisonment without trial – it is even possible to openly criticize the people who command such assassinations without being in danger of being executed by the government.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by qwertyuiop924 on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:40PM (#12177346)
I don't just disagree with your post: in light of what evilsocket just stated, your claims are downright ludocrious.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by nfd on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:14PM (#12177203)
I'd still stay away if I were evilsocket.
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by __jal on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @07:32PM (#12177297)
Personally, I'm more interested in the perception than in the sorts of defensiveness that I'm seeing in response.

Sure, statistically, most visitors aren't going to have any problem with our screwed up police.

But remember that, statistically, your average voter is more likely to drown in a bucket[1] than be a victim of terrorism, and look at what has been done since 2001 "to keep us safe".

Fear is not rational, and "you're wrong" or "I have this issue with your rhetorical technique" is not going to change any minds.

[1] Picked statistically unlikely event at random; did not look up actual statistics. You get the point and I'm not going to respond to pedantry.

Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by lazyant on Thursday July 28, 2016 @12:30PM (#12181273)
"As long as you don't break the law you are fine" this is the excuse that dictatorship apologists give "well, if you behaved and didn't demonstrate and didn't join a left/right party you were fine under Pinochet/Ceaucescu"
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by johnnyhillbilly on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @08:31PM (#12177584)
Even though I also try to stay away from the US, attitudes like these are in a different league: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by evilsocket on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @06:49PM (#12177062)
ahaha of course not! :D
Re:How the United Arab Emirates Intelligence Tried to Hire M... by angry_octet on Thursday July 28, 2016 @10:46AM (#12180517)