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Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by dpark on Monday July 25, 2016 @11:36AM (#12159368)
This is my concern with the fast-fire strategy. If you do a poor job with the interview process and hire someone who cannot do the job and have to fire them, you're messing up that person's life. They probably had a job before they accepted your offer. Now they're unemployed and it's your fault.

Firing people frequently is also expensive and it's demoralizing for the team. You also don't earn loyalty by showing that you have none yourself.

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by vonmoltke on Monday July 25, 2016 @12:18PM (#12159669)
> If you do a poor job with the interview process and hire someone who cannot do the job and have to fire them, you're messing up that person's life.

That should be an impetus to improve your hiring process, assuming it isn't a rare occurence.

> They probably had a job before they accepted your offer. Now they're unemployed and it's your fault.

It is not entirely your fault, unless you didn't effectively articulate what the job was. Otherwise, they took a job they knew was over their head.

> Firing people frequently is also expensive and it's demoralizing for the team.

See point #1. Firing people frequently is a sign your interview process is broken.

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by dpark on Monday July 25, 2016 @12:57PM (#12159948)
> It is not entirely your fault, unless you didn't effectively articulate what the job was. Otherwise, they took a job they knew was over their head.

It's mostly your fault. You know what the job is and what your expectations will be far better than the candidate. You should be hiring only when you are confident that they will be able to do the job.

> See point #1. Firing people frequently is a sign your interview process is broken.

Yes, that's exactly my point. "Fire fast" as a strategy should not replace "hire well". Your hiring process is entirely messed up if your strategy is "tasks risks in hiring but fire fast".

Sure, if you made a bad hiring decision, you may need to fire someone. But your hiring process should in general be filtering out poor candidates.

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by judahmeek on Monday July 25, 2016 @01:11PM (#12160031)
I'm pretty confident that the overwhelming consensus is that the tech hiring process IS broken.

Businesses either bias their individual hiring process towards false negatives or false positives, but no one has apparently figured out how to find the balance.

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by dragonwriter on Monday July 25, 2016 @12:26PM (#12159734)
> Firing people frequently is a sign your interview process is broken.

Firing people frequently after a short term of employment is a sign that the hiring process (interviewing is part of that, but perhaps not the problem part) is broken.

Firing people frequently but long after they were hired may be a sign of hiring process problems, but is more likely a sign of post-hiring working environment problems.

(Well, actually, in both cases those assume that the firing decisions are, themselves, justified in the individual cases; obviously, either of the above could be a sign that the firing decision process is broken, instead of some other process.)

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by vonmoltke on Monday July 25, 2016 @12:52PM (#12159907)
Absolutely right. I was sloppy in using "interview" to mean "hiring". I was implicitly only considering the short-term case, though. I agree that the long-term case implies more fundamental problems with the organization.
Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by gedrap on Monday July 25, 2016 @01:49PM (#12160272)
>>> If you do a poor job with the interview process and hire someone who cannot do the job and have to fire them

I think it largely depends on how do you fire people.

If you just decide 'fuck it, he's out' than yeah, that's awful. But if you give a chance to correct the issues, and actually give the chance rather than imposing some impossible requirements with your mind already set, that's different. Sometimes you just need a little push.

>>> Firing people frequently is also expensive and it's demoralizing for the team

Not sure about the expensive bit (it's better to fire sooner than later if you're going to fire anyway), but also concerned about the morale. Unless that's a very rare occurrence for quite obvious reasons, it will no doubt demoralize the team.

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by ThrustVectoring on Monday July 25, 2016 @02:14PM (#12160449)
I suspect that a bad programming hire will usually be fairly obvious to co-workers. Like, "firing fast" will probably be after the point where other programmers will have thought "I don't want to work with this person any more"
Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by BurningFrog on Monday July 25, 2016 @11:57AM (#12159510)
Depends who you fire and why.

There are few things more demoralizing for a team than keeping jerks around.

Unfortunately, jerks are an overrepresented demographic in programming.

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by dpark on Monday July 25, 2016 @12:59PM (#12159963)
I'm talking specifically about the "tasks risks in hiring but fire fast" strategy above. If your strategy is to hire without due diligence because you'll just fire later, that's extremely inconsiderate and also demoralizing.

Yes, sometimes you will need to fire people. But the strategy should be to hire the right people in the first place.

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by BurningFrog on Monday July 25, 2016 @03:56PM (#12161151)
I think of it more as a continuum that either full due diligence or hire most anyone who seems decent.

I agree that the latter version is wrong, but there is room to adjust how much you work on predicting future performance. How much of a jerk people are is one of the harder things to predict in interviews.

I get the feeling we're both speaking with previous unfortunate experiences in mind :)

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by tracker1 on Monday July 25, 2016 @01:24PM (#12160112)
The only thing that makes this hard, is when you spend a month looking for a viable candidate, and need work done, and have to pick someone... The person isn't your ideal choice, but the best of those available. It'll work out, or it won't.

In general, I tend to prefer people who are able/motivated to learn, as opposed to X years of experience in keyword Y.

Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by dpark on Monday July 25, 2016 @02:30PM (#12160566)
Sure. You're going to have to hire someone and there's always some risk that it won't work out.
Re:Don’t “Hire by Keyword” by tracker1 on Monday July 25, 2016 @01:22PM (#12160102)
One of the few times I've outright quit a job without another on the table was because of conflict with a "jerk" (overt arrogance irks me) that had too much political clout in the company to overcome. Of course broken process in a larger company is almost as irritating.