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Re:Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback? by mikekchar on Monday July 25, 2016 @06:31AM (#12157699)
I taught in a high school for 5 years. I learned one very important thing: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I only noticed after that experience that in my previous 25 years as a programmer the vast majority of people ignored my advice (even when they asked for it!)

Generally speaking, I've found that people have a preconceived notion of an answer when they solicit feedback for something. Then they go shopping around for the person who will answer with the feedback that they expect. When you give unsolicited feedback the effect is even stronger -- people simply do not want to believe that their expectations do not mesh with the real world.

The end result is that if you give good feedback and are saying things that the person knows already, it's not very effective because they already know it. If you give feedback and the person is surprised by it, they will disregard it unless forced to confront it. Forcing people to confront their incorrect understanding sometimes works, but rarely (Think... how many students shape up after failing a test? Some do, but the vast majority simply fall into a pattern of failure).

My most successful pattern of "feedback" is to simply provide support. If someone requires feedback, I rather ask them what they think of the situation. If it matches my opinion, then I encourage them to continue. If it doesn't, I do nothing until the situation reaches a head -- then I offer my assistance to help. Usually if the person is desperate they will also be open to new ideas.

Allowing people to fail is the best way to help them learn. Sometimes it can be costly, though. If the cost gets to be too high, you might have to intervene, but that's not a "regular feedback" kind of thing.

Just to clarify, though, most people require a different kind of feedback -- "You are a nice person. I enjoy working with you. I like it when you do X." It makes them feel comfortable and able to do their work. That kind of encouragement is often lacking in the workplace (and in schools, unfortunately). It helps to make a point of saying nice things whenever you notice them. At school I literally made a chart with all my students on it and I checked off whenever I noticed something they did right (and commented on it). If someone was missing ticks I would dedicate myself to watching them all day to catch them doing something right (try not to be creepy about it ;-) )

Edit: If you are wanting to write software, I would love a chart that I could put all my colleagues on where I could write nice things when I saw them. It would be awesome if it had alarms to tell me when I wasn't encouraging certain people, etc. I'd pay money for that.

Re:Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback? by jaimebuelta on Monday July 25, 2016 @11:08AM (#12159181)
This.

Feedback too often falls into the "I need to say something not great/bad, so we keep improving", instead of listening when someone asks for support.

People performs better when confident their contribution is important and are confortable asking for help when needed.

Re:Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback? by ali_ibrahim on Monday July 25, 2016 @03:42PM (#12161054)
hey mikechar, thanks for your excellent insights. I think we can agree that whosoever wants to improve themselves they listen to the feedback given to them and who so doesn't its useless to them. So if someone really needs it there has to be a mechanism to be given to it (which basically i am trying to address in my startup i mentioned above in the comment i did). I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Re:Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback? by mikekchar on Monday July 25, 2016 @07:41PM (#12162372)
If I'm trying to follow my own advice, I suppose now is the time where I'm supposed to smile, tell you to do your best and offer you support if you run into trouble :-).

It's true that some people are really excellent at listening to people and incorporating feedback. I don't really know if those people find that they lack opportunities for feedback.

Just to quote you:

> whosoever wants to improve themselves they listen to the feedback given to them and who so doesn't its useless to them. So if someone really needs it there has to be a mechanism to be given to it.

If you start with this assumption, then there is no need to ask your question ("Do we really need performance feedback?"), because you have assumed your answer. I think you know that :-) Forgive me for what will seem like going off on a tangent, but let me tell you a quick story about when I was teaching.

I taught English as a foreign language to Japanese high school students. Their text book was terrible and I avoided it, but one section was not too bad. I asked the students to bring in their text book the next day. I spoke English, but it was simple English that they all knew and everyone seemed to understand.

The next day, not a single person brought their text book. I asked them if they remembered me asking about it. Out of 30 people, not one person remembered me saying anything at all. Luckily, another teacher was in the room when I had asked, so I could verify that it wasn't just me going crazy. I had asked them, and not one of the students remembered the event at all.

You might think (as I did) that at the very least the students might remember me saying something that they didn't understand at the end of class. As it turns out, that's not the way memory works. If you don't understand something, or if your reject it in some way, you are likely not to remember that the event happened at all!

In the same way, many people complain that they never get feedback. They feel that this is the reason that they can not improve. If only someone would give them feedback! However, I think it is likely that when people are poor at receiving feedback, their brains filter out the events leading them to believe that the fault lies with others. To be honest, I believe that this happens with many other things as well ;-)

My personal suspicion is that by providing another feedback mechanism, you may be serving a small audience which is already well served by traditional means. Those people who react well to feedback do not seem to have trouble cultivating it, in my experience. People who reject feedback think that it is rare because they don't internalise it. They are probably the much bigger market, but they are not a market that will benefit from more feedback. If it were me, I think I might try to turn my mind to trying to find out what these people need.

Hope that helps. Good luck!