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Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by smt88 on Friday July 22, 2016 @11:18AM (#12144055)
Did he create opportunities for himself, or did he live in a country where other taxpayers covered the cost of his college education?

He's an impressive person, but "poor guy pulled himself up by the bootstraps using sheer force of will" narratives usually fall apart when you look more closely.

Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by dang on Friday July 22, 2016 @01:09PM (#12144913)
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12143635 and marked it off-topic.
Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by safeignorance on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:36PM (#12144651)
An American without a high school diploma or GED convinced a seriously good German university to admit him. That's pretty impressive.

If I were in his situation, there's no way I would have had the gull to try that route. Probably would've just stayed in the forest service. Maybe gone for a GED then community college then a local land grant. By which time I'd be too burnt out on it all (and too old) to even think about a doctorate.

There's no doubting that the German people helped this guy achieve what he achieved. There's also no doubting that he was truly exceptionally resourceful (and maybe a bit lucky, too).

Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by leephillips on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:32PM (#12145658)
This shows that the Göttingen science faculty is maintaining its centuries-long tradition of taking chances and nurturing scientific talent, without regard to sex, race, or class, often in defiance of the surrounding culture. The most famous example is Emmy Noether:

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/05/the-female-mathematic...

Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by jessaustin on Friday July 22, 2016 @11:45AM (#12144225)
Do we really need this political bullshit here? Dude made a discovery, let's not pick it apart for bizarre partisan reasons.
Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by smt88 on Friday July 22, 2016 @11:50AM (#12144268)
Politics is inextricable from human life, news, and technology. Any story here can be political, and that should be fine. Whatever my political leanings, I had an issue with this sentence:

> creating opportunities for yourself where none seem to exist

The fact is that there were opportunities. In countries where education is free and accessible, there are always opportunities.

If the subject is spreading education, I will happily be partisan and political, even if you find it irritating. It's too important to ignore, especially when it's a core factor in this headline and story.

Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by dang on Friday July 22, 2016 @01:20PM (#12145007)
That argument isn't valid here and does not lead to positive contributions to HN. Why? Because the topic here is/was concrete: a biologist who made a discovery about lichens. To use that as fodder for an ideological argument is to take the discussion in the wrong direction: away from something that gratifies intellectual curiosity into something that does not, however important it may otherwise be.

Intellectual curiosity is HN's core value. Curiosity is gratified by things that are specific, so the specific is precious here. Generic ideological arguments are the opposite: they're reruns of episodes seen many times, for which circumstances are interesting only as primer fuel, quickly to be discarded on getting going.

Worse, the energy they mobilize is agitated and the stance they induce is rigid. They throw people out out of the relaxed, reflective state that makes for good HN conversation, charging their reflexes and putting them into battle mode . From an intellectual curiosity point of view, it doesn't matter what the battle is—we end up with scorched earth either way.

It may be important to get people marching, but let's not march over a lichen garden.

Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by l3m0ndr0p on Friday July 22, 2016 @01:40PM (#12145203)
Anything in that article should be open for discussion or debate. If the article didn't mention the education portion, then it would be in appropriate. However, it was mentioned in the article & I think it should be focused on equally for discussion and debate.

The discovery is amazing. What's even more impressive is that he received a free education in another country, with a home-schooled background.

Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by dang on Friday July 22, 2016 @01:48PM (#12145280)
For the most part that's no problem, as long as it's done in the spirit of intellectual curiosity and not ideological battle.
Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by smt88 on Friday July 22, 2016 @05:34PM (#12146929)
My original comment was not an ideological battle. It was purely factual. Someone suggested it was too political (or had political motives), and I replied that I wouldn't pretend I'm not political or that the topic isn't political. Plain facts (in this case that Germany has free education and that it creates opportunities) can be highly politically charged, and I don't see that as a reason to shy away from them.
Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by dang on Friday July 22, 2016 @06:51PM (#12147343)
> My original comment was not an ideological battle. It was purely factual.

At a minimum it pointed thither, since government programs and payment for education are politically charged and your comment read as advocacy in that area. You also used ideologically charged language ("poor guy pulled himself up by the bootstraps") which is the opposite of "purely factual". That explains why a user responded with "political bullshit" (which was also bad, btw, since it's name-calling by HN guidelines' standard).

Re:How Toby Spribille Overturned 150 Years of Biology about ... by astrodust on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:10PM (#12145469)
Babies should work to pay for their own food, those useless freeloaders. Children should work to pay rent, otherwise they're ungrateful leeches.

Or maybe education is one of those things important to the survival of our species and the improvement of quality of life for everyone. Nobody benefits when someone who wanted to be a doctor or a scientist and was capable of becoming one is denied an education and instead can't get a job for lack of qualifications.

The number of people who've pulled themselves up from their own bootstraps are zero. You're always dependent on others or benefit from their knowledge in some capacity. The degree to which this happens is variable, but it can never be eliminated.

A "self-made man" is a myth. Give it up.