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Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by cerrelio on Thursday July 21, 2016 @11:18PM (#12141517)
I see why they want to create their own curated content. A friend of mine has created and run several user-generated content sites and he said: "user generated content is worthless; largely racism and porn." It's driven by the lowest common denominator.

As long as content is hosted on company-controlled servers where ad revenue is the model for survival, you're going to see slow declines and eventual busts like Digg. Users hate being advertised to and censored.

The future is probably something where people pay a small amount to access a forum that's somehow distributed on their machines (phones, PCs, etc) and not controlled by any organization. Data transfer (even mobile) and storage are getting cheaper. It'll be like bitcoin, but for discussions.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by gozur88 on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:21AM (#12141675)
>As long as content is hosted on company-controlled servers where ad revenue is the model for survival, you're going to see slow declines and eventual busts like Digg.

That's really not what happened at Digg. The problem at Digg was a structure which rewarded "power users" and allowed third party commercial interests to gain control of the site. It's bad enough that Digg had advertising - eventually we were looking at Digg ads to get to content that was itself advertising.

And not all user generated content is worthless. Youtube is a good example of this - I can point to user after user who has uploaded quality original content of one kind or another for years.

Yes, 90% of it is crap, but if you subscribe to the channels you like and check out the channels your subscriptions recommend, you can avoid nearly all of it. And, you know, Sturgeon's Law.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by vintermann on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:56AM (#12142134)
Yes, to say that user generated content is porn and racism, that really says more about the person saying it.

(A more real problem is that early adopters of any web community building effort are overwhelmingly just there to self-promote in one form or another.)

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by nommm-nommm on Friday July 22, 2016 @09:09AM (#12143264)
Youtube can be a significant revenue steam for the users through so it's not a good example.
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by cerrelio on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:27AM (#12141687)
Digg failed because of attempts to monetize it better through ads. Users revolted and eventually it crumbled. Users weren't able to control their content.

Regarding your second point, if you include Youtube comments, and not just the videos, it's definitely 90% crap.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by gozur88 on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:39AM (#12141723)
I disagree on Digg. I didn't mind the ads. Not enough to stop using the site, anyway. What I minded was the transition of the content to advertising. Plus, at the same time they did a site redesign that made it look like one of those auto-generated news sites.

Comments on youtube... yeah, they're crap for most videos. I guess technically comments are user generated content, but I never really think of them that way. Even more so on a site like youtube where the videos are the important bit.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by a_small_island on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:35AM (#12141716)
>"The future is probably something where people pay a small amount to access a forum that's somehow distributed on their machines (phones, PCs, etc) and not controlled by any organization. Data transfer (even mobile) and storage are getting cheaper. It'll be like bitcoin, but for discussions."

No. The future is the next Digg, the next Reddit, etc. Just like a torrent site, when one goes down (for whatever reason), the next in line pops up to take its place (and users). The internet does not want to pay money to access a forum. The internet also does not want to be advertised to. So the cycle will continue.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by ben_jones on Friday July 22, 2016 @01:40AM (#12141909)
Here's the problem (IMO): Reddit has too many features and too big a userbase to replicate as Reddit itself did a decade ago. voat.co has been in development for years and still lacks crucial systems for things like content moderation, monetization, scaling, etc.

Essentially for a coup of Reddit to occur you have to take a large chunk of Reddit at once. That is very hard to do.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by rat87 on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:48AM (#12142105)
Reddit doesn't have that many features hell it lacks tools for getting notification on sibling, or aunt/uncle comments, and you can't even edit threads more then 6 months old.

It doesn't have a standard spoiler syntax for comments or a spoiler tag(people hack it in with nsfw tags styled to say spoiler but from the main page it will look like porn(ie be marked nsfw)).

It lacks a wysiwyg editor by default. It would be nice to have a nsfw subreddit namespace so that sex related subreddits don't take up possibly safe/useful names and so that you know that /r/humanporn isn't porn. Also a nsfl tag. Ability to expand "ALL" comments. Ability to pick percentage of home page each of your subscribed subs get.

Also a policy that allows removing bad mods from power, ie /r/Holocaust really should not be run by anti-semitic holocaust deniers.

Oh a way to sort posts by reverse age and allow posts in between time x and y not just last hour/day/month/year.

---

Of course reddit does have good mobile apps (at least on android), a competitor would need a good mobile app for at least 2 systems which can take a while.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by CM30 on Friday July 22, 2016 @05:07AM (#12142484)
Voat's issue is that it managed to get users from the most controversial communities... and that's about it. If you're not interested in Donald Trump, GamerGate or something similarly controversial, then Voat is simply a really empty forum that doesn't have enough members or posts to keep people returning.

It's having the issue a lot of 'free speech' centric services have; it appeals to a minority who feel censored, but not the mass market that simply want to discuss less controversial topics.

And until there's enough people able to talk about a variety of subjects, the site is basically pigeonholed as the 'place people banned from Reddit might go'.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by chme on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:03AM (#12141966)
voat.co was developed because someone wanted to develop something with ASP.net.

Reddit, the software platform is open source: https://github.com/reddit

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by piaste on Friday July 22, 2016 @09:37AM (#12143387)
Voat is run on ASP.NET but it's open source as well:

https://github.com/voat

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by vintermann on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:59AM (#12142144)
I'm not exactly proud of it, but I've paid more for hosting my own stuff (or really, having a server that I do almost nothing with) than I have paid in patreon-like subscriptions and flattr. So I don't think the "on your own machines" model is entirely impossible.
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by cerrelio on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:45AM (#12141737)
With the advent of the cloud and the ubiquity of mobile devices, the next Digg won't be controlled by anyone other than the users. They will supply the storage and bandwidth. The community will truly be in charge, and also be responsible for policing it. When the cost (time) of policing it becomes too much (even with machine-learning bots to remove ads, child porn, hate speech, harassment, etc), then a new version of that model will appear.
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by jboles on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:22AM (#12142009)
While we're at it, we can also throw blockchain at the problem. It will be hosted on Etherium as the DAO (Distributed Authoring Organisation). Policy changes require 51% of the computing power. If someone doesn't like some content, they can fork off and make their own child DAO, living in a universe where that content no longer exists.
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by skewart on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:34AM (#12142048)
> A friend of mine has created and run several user-generated content sites and he said: "user generated content is worthless; largely racism and porn." It's driven by the lowest common denominator.

What about HN? I don't disagree that a lot of ugc on the web is crap. I do think though that there are viable strategies for encouraging quality content.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by dorfsmay on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:49AM (#12142106)
> user generated content is worthless; largely racism and porn." It's driven by the lowest common denominator

stackoverflow would be one counter example.

So would a lot of subreddit (IS, CS, and science oriented ones for example).

Oh and what about wikipedia?

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by Animats on Friday July 22, 2016 @01:51AM (#12141939)
How much does it really cost to run a forum system? Even a big one? Look at 4chan.
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by lazaroclapp on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:42AM (#12142074)
Well, I imagine Reddit costs far more than 4chan to run, not just because they store the content at perpetuity, but also because Reddit has actual employees, not just volunteers working out of the g... evil of their hearts.

But, more importantly, how much Reddit costs to run, at their current scale, is immaterial. Reddit has raised $50 million in VC money and is valued at $500 million, that means that half a billion is the mark they are expected to meet/exceed in lifetime revenue, independent on what their costs are. For better or worse, for-profit startups have very different incentives than non-corporate internet communities. This allows Reddit to not be 4chan (wider audience, some level of control on trolling and harassment, etc), but at the same time, it can't be 4chan (including running on a ramen-for-one-and-electricity-bill budget if need to be)

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by TeMPOraL on Friday July 22, 2016 @03:08AM (#12142170)
Sites like Reddit should not be businesses in the first place. There's a conflict of interest right there, between the very idea of community site and the needs of a business. They've been handling it somewhat gracefully to date, but business pressures increase...

Normally I'd suggest they start another business doing some honest work (i.e. not ad revenue). Say, a hosting service, since they have experience with that already. Reddit then could become a marketing expense for them - something they'd run for the sole ability to say "Yes, we're the ones who're running the Front Page of the Internet! As you can see, we have some experience!".

But, as you said, they took VC money. It changes the picture significantly. I'm not sure they can be helped.

In every get-rich-quick scheme there's a catch. In startups, the catch is that if you care about your product then taking VC money is a difficult decision because it means surrendering your business to the whims of people who absolutely don't care about your product.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by Animats on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:22PM (#12145583)
That means Reddit is trying to run a high-margin business in a low-margin space. As ad blockers get better, that may stop working. At one time, it was expensive to run a service with a large user base. Technology has progressed, and it no longer is.

Craigslist wiped the entire classified ad industry and much of the newspaper industry off the face of the earth merely by being the low-cost provider. Ad-supported businesses should be afraid. Very afraid.

As for Reddit, the VCs may have to take a haircut.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by lmm on Friday July 22, 2016 @08:02AM (#12143036)
Moot came from a wealthy family and was able to subsidize 4chan. He deserves a lot of respect for that, but it's not a sustainable/replicable model.
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by CM30 on Friday July 22, 2016 @08:29AM (#12143124)
Depends on a lot of factors.

Is the content mostly text or does it have a lot of images/videos/sound files? If the former, it's a lot cheaper to run than the latter (hence why a lot of big community sites are so 'vanilla').

What's the audience/topic? Some fields are easier to monetise than others. People in tech are more likely to use Adblockers, but they're also more likely to try out new methods of monetisation (like say, a Patreon type system or something involving Bitcoin).

How much do you know about running a server? Much cheaper to run a big site on an unmanaged service than a managed one.

How many people post vs how many people read. More posting in less time = more server resources and more service costs.

What script do you use? Something lightweight and lacking in a lot of features is going to hold up for longer on a shared server than something like XenForo or IPB or VBulletin.

So it can be really cheap if you're after a simple forum with an audience that doesn't block ads and might be willing to spend a lot on subscriptions or donations. It can be really expensive if you're offering a live video chat microblogging/livestreaming service.

I've seen large forums with hundreds of thousands of posts on $5 a month hosting, and sites with about 50 users needing a dedicated server.

Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by drusepth on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:21AM (#12141674)
As an average user, why would I care whether that forum is online or distributed to my machine?
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by cerrelio on Friday July 22, 2016 @12:24AM (#12141683)
You usually don't. Until someone comes along as says "you can't say that" and removes your content, because you don't control it.
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by mintplant on Thursday July 21, 2016 @11:30PM (#12141548)
So, Usenet?
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by cerrelio on Thursday July 21, 2016 @11:35PM (#12141571)
Yes, but for tech-illiterate millennials. Usenet has to be wrapped in various interfaces to make it usable/searchable, and usually shitty VPNs are hawked as add-on to help you avoid your ISP sending you nastygrams for downloading all of Sex and the City or whatever Marvel superhero movie is the current rage.
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by white-flame on Friday July 22, 2016 @01:42AM (#12141916)
There's this place between "create their own curated content" and free-for-all "user generated content" that is "moderated & curated user generated content".
Re:Reddit is still in turmoil by jsemrau on Friday July 22, 2016 @02:00AM (#12141955)
Isn't that imgur?