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Re:My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starv... by tptacek on Monday July 18, 2016 @01:36PM (#12116653)
Once again, debates over definitions completely derail any sensible discussion of socialism. The word "markets" as used by people criticizing command economies for not having them does not simply mean "places where radishes are kept with numbers attached to them".

It is perfectly reasonable to use the term "market" that way. After all, what else would you call a place where radishes are stored with price tags? But that's not what the person arguing with you is saying, and trying to rebut them based on an alternate definition is unproductive.

Re:My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starv... by Frondo on Monday July 18, 2016 @02:59PM (#12117331)
You know, debates over definitions give people who have nothing of substance to contribute a chance to be "right" about a subject. I wish we'd see less of them here; in this comments section, we could probably trim out 90% of the back-and-forth chatter.
Re:My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starv... by pastProlog on Monday July 18, 2016 @01:52PM (#12116808)
Alternate definition? A market is a place where you exchange currency for commodities. That is a definition of what a market is, not an "alternative definition".

There is no being coy at all, I can't even twist my head around how these similar places in the US and Russia are not the same. What is his "alternate definition" where such a place in Russia is stripped of the word market?

Re:My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starv... by tedunangst on Monday July 18, 2016 @02:36PM (#12117158)
Perhaps you can tell us more about how the USSR stock market worked. People in the US know very little about it, even believing it may not have existed.
Re:My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starv... by tptacek on Monday July 18, 2016 @02:00PM (#12116887)
As I said, that is indeed one definition of a market. But the parent commenter is referring to markets in the free market sense, in which the markets perform price discovery.
Re:My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starv... by pastProlog on Monday July 18, 2016 @02:43PM (#12117219)
You refer to a market in the US that sells radishes for dollars as "free", which presumably means the identical market selling radishes for rubles in the USSR is unfree, and I am the one playing around? I have trouble fathoming definitions so steeped in ideology, it reminds me of the US Congress cafeteria renaming French fries as Freedom fries when France chose not to join the US on some imperial venture.

That's a minor point as you answered the question, sort of. But not to satisfaction. A market in the US or USSR sells commodities at a set price. People buy goods or they don't. The markets operate exactly the same.

As you're attempting to make a rational argument unlike others, I will get to the point. The markets in the US and USSR were the same, despite you following some US ideological line and calling the US one a "free" one. It is production that was different, and control of production. Misdirecting the difference from control of production to "free" markets is just more misdirection and sophistry (which is widespread, not particularly pertaining to you).

Re:My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starv... by knowaveragejoe on Monday July 18, 2016 @04:19PM (#12117810)
The difference was already pointed out by tptacek - price discovery is an emergent phenomena in "free" markets, as opposed to set by some central authority. There's of course plenty of debate to be had about how "free" markets are in the West, as there are a variety of markets that are heavily regulated. But it is obvious which one is more "free" if we're comparing the USSR to the West, even if the difference is mostly symbolic.