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Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by rayiner on Friday June 24, 2016 @11:59AM (#11970819)
Democracy is fine. The intellectual class just needs to learn to respect it. There is pretty much nothing that deserves to be decided by the will of the people--their values, their emotions, their world views--than the question of "what body politic do I want to belong to?"

The deep irony of the anti-Brexit narrative is that the same people would froth at the mouth if you said "India would've been better off economically if it hadn't separated from the British Empire." Whether or not that's true, it's an argument--like the anti-Brexit rhetoric--misses the point completely.

Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by boundlessdreamz on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:23PM (#11971039)
I know the point you are trying to make but India wouldn't have been better off economically under British Empire. British decimated the Indian economy

http://www.thehindu.com/2005/07/10/stories/2005071002301000....

As the painstaking statistical work of the Cambridge historian Angus Maddison has shown, India's share of world income collapsed from 22.6 per cent in 1700, almost equal to Europe's share of 23.3 per cent at that time, to as low as 3.8 per cent in 1952.

Indeed, at the beginning of the 20th Century, "the brightest jewel in the British Crown" was the poorest country in the world in terms of per capita income

Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by Chathamization on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:39PM (#11971218)
> India's share of world income collapsed from 22.6 per cent in 1700, almost equal to Europe's share of 23.3 per cent at that time, to as low as 3.8 per cent in 1952.

Not sure how useful this statistic is - it's including the collapse of the Mughal Empire in the early 1700's. British company rule is usually dated around the mid-1700's, with the British Raj starting in the mid-1800's. We're also looking at percentage of the global economy, so it's not clear how much of this is a decline in the Indian economy and how much is it not growing as fast as other countries.

Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by bluishgreen on Sunday June 26, 2016 @12:16PM (#11981395)
Think of it like this: India is a company and you are the CEO. The market is disrupted and you sat on your ass - will the stock holders be happy with you because the stock price went down, but hey - you were still doing the same thing for 100 years with no change, so congrats?

A State is the same as a company, except worse - they have an army and a monopoly on violence. After a war, when a king takes over, they tried to integrate with the new people, marry into them and in this way eventually begin to rule them. That began to change when people’s skin color was drastically different. The term Colonists was invented to convey how race got into the mix. The British were never a Raj (kings), they never ruled over India in the traditional sense of the word. They were colonists - they colonized and decimated the Indian economy.

Forget the economy, they decimated the population:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India#Scholarly_opin...

Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by gh-lfneu28 on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:42PM (#11971248)
Except that Angus Maddison's estimates are a wild speculation based on hand-waved assumptions and 'extrapolated' data.
Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by ddebernardy on Friday June 24, 2016 @02:23PM (#11972169)
That's comparing apples to oranges though. China was also huge at the time, and no Europeans were there to screw it over. Yet, they were irrelevant by the turn of the 20th century.

(If you really want something to point fingers at, try the habits that stem from the cultural and religious landscapes. You can't erase millennia worth of those overnight.)

Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by boundlessdreamz on Saturday June 25, 2016 @12:15AM (#11975190)
Europeans didn't screw over China? Come on - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

Europeans screwed over every single country they could.

Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by rtpg on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:04PM (#11970864)
Honestly the India comparison is "slightly" exaggerated.

British people could vote for European MPs. It's not like the UK was colonised by Europe.

There is devolution of sovereignty but you're gonna basically end up with that with the kind of trade pacts the EU demands anyways.

Lots of symbolism involved of course.

Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by rayiner on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:05PM (#11970876)
I'm not saying it's literally as bad as colonization. But the symbolism is useful in showing that the focus on economic impacts is utterly misguided. Democracy isn't about optimizing for economics; it's about people deciding how they want to be governed. "Who should be able to tell me what to do?" That's a sacrosanct decision! It shouldn't be made by bureaucrats and intellectuals looking at the impact on currency prices.
Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by jacalata on Friday June 24, 2016 @01:08PM (#11971544)
The Leave campaign spent plenty of time telling people that the UK would be economically better off without the EU, £350m per week better off. Lots of bullshit about how if it weren't for the EU they could afford to support farmers and so on. People voted against it because they think immigrants are taking their jobs and EU regulations are driving British producers out of business.
Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by sgustard on Friday June 24, 2016 @01:01PM (#11971469)
The EU does not "govern" Britain in any meaningful sense, but I agree the "independence" strawman was a strong motivator for the separatist movement.
Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by rayiner on Friday June 24, 2016 @01:14PM (#11971602)
It does: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV%3...

> The regulation is directly applicable in all EU countries. This means that it:

> - applies immediately as the norm in all EU countries, without needing to be transposed into national law,

> - creates rights and obligations for individuals and they can therefore invoke it directly before national courts,

> - can be used as a reference by individuals in their relationship with other individuals, EU countries or EU authorities.

Re:The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after vo... by rtpg on Friday June 24, 2016 @10:13PM (#11974864)
While the regulations apply instantly, it's because national gov'ts passed laws saying "You need to follow european regulations".

It's like how the FCC can change regulations regarding radio usage without passing a law. You're just delegating rule-making