News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by dragonwriter on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:10PM (#11917830)
There is no legal marijuana trade in the US, as all marijuana trade is criminal under federal law, and it's generally a crime to knowingly profit from a crime (and, since drug offenses are covered in RICO, it's another crime to use any profits tired to them in the operation of any business engaged in interstate commerce.)

Microsoft may be keeping distant enough not to worry (though perhaps not given their formal partnership with Kind, even if their own offering is only to governments), but Kind is basically betting it's business -- and the personal liberty of its decision makers -- on the willingness of the federal government to extend the informal prosecutorial tolerance of in-state activities related to marijuana that comply with state laws in states which have adopted some form of state legalization to larger interstate enterprises (and on that tolerance continuing at all, which it might well not under a different administration.)

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by will_brown on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:32PM (#11917977)
> as all marijuana trade is criminal under federal law

You may be right because of the word trade; however, the Federal government itself has authorized the growing (University of Mississippi) and interstate distribution of legal marijuana since 1976 through CIND.

Not trying to split hairs, because the total patient list has probably always been under a dozen people, but it is still an interesting fact and one I only know of because I randomly represented one of the Federal patients in a corporate capacity. Each patient dosage is individualized, and the Federal government gives my client 360 joints per month.

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by duskwuff on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:47PM (#11918744)
I have to wonder, then: is the marijuana that's grown for research purposes representative of what's commonly grown and smoked today? Or is it essentially a "snapshot" of what was commonplace in 1976?
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by jericsinger on Friday June 17, 2016 @12:44AM (#11920728)
It's utterly pharmaceutical. The consumer market thinks of marijuana in terms of whole strains. The federal government, or more precisely, the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), which directs UM's program, thinks of marijuana in terms of constituent cannabinoids, with a special focus on THC and CBD. Their marijuana product is distributed in a homogenized form that's mixed to spec, so if you were to place an order from their menu[1], you'd ask for X marijuana cigarettes with "Medium THC / Low CBD." Of course, what NIDA considers high THC (5-10% by weight) doesn't compare all that well with today's products in the legal markets. In Colorado, 16-20% THC plant material is pretty common.

[1] https://www.drugabuse.gov/researchers/research-resources/nid...

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by MikeHolman on Thursday June 16, 2016 @07:58PM (#11919857)
360 joints per month? That's an absolutely insane amount of marijuana. Even if marijuana isn't inherently unhealthy, I have to imagine it can't be healthy to put that much smoke into your lungs.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by 2muchcoffeeman on Friday June 17, 2016 @01:09AM (#11920796)
Why even bother with that? Judging from jericsinger comment, if it is so precise, why not just create a pill or something?

Why bother with exposing yourself to breathing problems or lung cancer. And with smoking being banned in more and more places, it can't be easy to administer.

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by will_brown on Friday June 17, 2016 @01:09PM (#11923862)
I remembered the # of joints, but just confirmed the amount and its 9oz/month...leave it to the federal government right?

As far as respiratory issues, I have never seen any medical record (nor would I discuss them if I did), but my Client is a public figure/activist for medical marijuana and addresses this question regularly. You can find videos online of him discussing this and many other issues if you are interested, but in short he claims no negative respiratory effects and 34 years on this dosage.

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by sb057 on Thursday June 16, 2016 @08:37PM (#11919994)
Weaker lungs is a small price to pay for not being blind and/or insane
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by MikeHolman on Thursday June 16, 2016 @09:37PM (#11920166)
I didn't know marijuana was a cure for blindness or psychosis (if anything I thought it was an aggravator of the latter).
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by ghshephard on Thursday June 16, 2016 @10:43PM (#11920379)
very short term effectiveness for treating Glaucoma: http://www.aao.org/salud-ocular/consejos/medical-marijuana-g...
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by jonlucc on Thursday June 16, 2016 @03:21PM (#11918259)
It was my understanding that the farm at University of Mississippi also provided the majority of the marijuana products for laboratory testing in the US.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by jericsinger on Friday June 17, 2016 @12:50AM (#11920741)
You're correct. And the ordering guidelines are...extensive. https://www.drugabuse.gov/ordering-guidelines-marijuana-mari...
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by DrScump on Thursday June 16, 2016 @06:29PM (#11919399)
Is this for consumption as full cannabis products (for smoking or consumables) or for the production of marinol only?
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by jeady on Thursday June 16, 2016 @06:48PM (#11919510)
Consumption as full cannabis products.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by nzealand on Thursday June 16, 2016 @03:46PM (#11918384)
Not 365, but 360?
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by gberger on Thursday June 16, 2016 @03:49PM (#11918414)
Per month, not per year. So ~12 per day.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by HeyLaughingBoy on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:14PM (#11918914)
I would get absolutely nothing done...
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by retbull on Thursday June 16, 2016 @08:26PM (#11919961)
I'd sell 11 for 10 dollars a pop and get nothing done on 1 a day. 110 a day isn't bad spending money. The reality is though it would almost definitely be ridiculously hard to get away with selling government weed. Fuck if I know what I would do with that much.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by kyleblarson on Thursday June 16, 2016 @07:20PM (#11919691)
As a Seattlite I had high hopes when Obama appointed Gil Kerlikowske to be Drug Czar, given that he was the police chief in a city with a very progressive approach to cannabis. But alas, as in myriad other areas of the Obama administration, hope was just that: hope.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by dTal on Friday June 17, 2016 @06:11AM (#11921708)
You know, it just occurred to me: while Obama hasn't spent too much political capital on drugs, the US is closer to legalisation than it's ever been, to an extent unbelievable not that long ago. It could easily be that Obama has been quietly supporting legalisation, in politically-invisible ways (such as failing to respond in any meaningful way to the avalanch of state level legalisation).
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by umanwizard on Thursday June 16, 2016 @10:06PM (#11920258)
What do you mean? Obama is the most progressive president on drug policy in decades.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by sehugg on Thursday June 16, 2016 @06:20PM (#11919334)
We know at least one case where a state DA has gone after a software developer tied to an illegal activity (gambling, [1]) so having a middleman and limiting their customers to governments may be an unfortunate legal necessity to prevent their engineers getting strong-armed into becoming informants.

[1] https://www.wired.com/2013/01/coder-charged-for-gambling-sof...

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by kafkaesq on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:40PM (#11918037)
There is no legal marijuana trade in the US,

You mean interstate trade, of course.

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by DrScump on Thursday June 16, 2016 @06:34PM (#11919439)
FDR's Supreme Court blew the Commerce Clause open such that the Feds can regulate purely intrastate commerce as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by Redoubts on Friday June 17, 2016 @12:21AM (#11920670)
You don't even have to participate in commerce to participate in commerce.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by anonbanker on Friday June 17, 2016 @07:19PM (#11926132)
in Thomas' dissent in that case, he states that the decision means that the commerce clause invalidates the 10th amendment, which is huge.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by yuubi on Thursday June 16, 2016 @08:15PM (#11919916)
It's worse than parent makes it sound: the conduct in that case was growing grain without permission, not for sale, but to feed to chickens on the same farm.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by Bjartr on Thursday June 16, 2016 @03:22PM (#11918264)
I thought that since you can nearly always draw a connection between almost any economic activity and stove kind of effect on interstate commerce, the commerce clause isn't much of a restriction these days?
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by CJKinni on Thursday June 16, 2016 @03:12PM (#11918194)
Tell that to Roscoe Filburn.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by pdabbadabba on Thursday June 16, 2016 @03:41PM (#11918361)
Or Angel Raich! https://www.oyez.org/cases/2004/03-1454

"The question presented in this case is whether the power vested in Congress by Article I, §8, of the Constitution '[t]o make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution' its authority to 'regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States' includes the power to prohibit the local cultivation and use of marijuana in compliance with California law." (The answer is 'yes.')

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by tn13 on Thursday June 16, 2016 @03:14PM (#11918212)
> on the willingness of the federal government to extend the informal prosecutorial tolerance of in-state activities related to marijuana that comply with state laws in states which have adopted some form of state legalization to larger interstate enterprises

The only think that is allowed Federal government to terrorist people in the name of Marijuana is it is still not a common knowledge that the laws about Marijuana are absurd. Federal government taking on MS might be a good thing for society in general.

One big issue with the "war of drugs" is that it is very easy to benefit by helping the illegal drug dealers that fighting against the regulation. If Uber can wage war on different government for de-regulating taxi business why cant a wannabe hemp company do the same? It is not happening but MS getting into this is a good sign.

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by xiaoma on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:18PM (#11917877)
It also depends on the judiciary.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by huac on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:24PM (#11917930)
First, that's the 10th amendment. Second, the Supreme Court tested the 10th Amendment vs the Commerce Clause (which grants the USFG the ability to govern interstate commerce) in Gonzales vs Raich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich) and found that the Commerce Clause could cover marijuana sales and distribution (including medical, which was legal in California).
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by bdisraeli on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:23PM (#11917926)
This is totally wrong. Previous Supreme Court decisions, especially Gonzales v. Raich, have set a pretty clear precedent that the Federal Government has the authority to criminalize drugs even when their use is legal in a particular state.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by tamana on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:51PM (#11918105)
Right, it depends on the judiciary.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by pdabbadabba on Thursday June 16, 2016 @03:43PM (#11918371)
But not anymore, because decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court are binding on all lower state and federal courts in the U.S.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by anonbanker on Friday June 17, 2016 @07:21PM (#11926139)
only if stare decisis means nothing to them.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by jack9 on Sunday June 19, 2016 @01:32AM (#11931904)
stare decisis is not a rule. Moreover, interpretation can and does change over time. The law is not absolute across a given timeframe.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by anonbanker on Sunday June 19, 2016 @09:26PM (#11935594)
Clarence Thomas agrees with you. The rest of SCOTUS does not.
Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by hguant on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:33PM (#11917988)
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

I don't think this means what you think it means. A quick glance at wikipedia expands and explains:

The Ninth Amendment explicitly bars denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain rights in the Constitution, but this amendment does not explicitly bar denial of unenumerated rights if the denial is based on the enumeration of certain powers in the Constitution.

What unenumerated right is being infringed here?

One could suppose the right you're referring to is that of the individual states to create their own laws...except the Constitution covers that one in Article VI, clause 2:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing [sic] in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Or the right of the states to regulate trade...

[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

...hmmm.

The problem is that a) weed is illegal in the United States under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) (21 U.S.C. § 811) b) the President of the United States has decided not to enforce this law (in violation of Article III clause 5: "he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed"). This had led to a murky situation where the laws that apply to a local company are very very different from the laws that a multinational entity like Microsoft has to worry about. I'd be very interested to see what happens in the long run here.

Re:Microsoft is the first big company to say it's serving th... by hackuser on Thursday June 16, 2016 @02:21PM (#11917901)
I'm pretty sure there are federal laws against aspects of the marijuana industry which have been long enforced by the judiciary.

Shipping it across state lines seems like an obvious example.