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Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by Animats on Monday June 13, 2016 @07:34PM (#11898642)
"The liquid leaked from a one-gallon container of “Amazing Liquid Fire,” a drain cleaner, during a flight from Louisville, Ky. to Boulder, Colo. ... The FAA alleged that the shipment was not properly packaged, was not accompanied by a proper declaration stating the hazardous nature of its contents." 9 employees injured.

"Amazing Liquid Fire" is concentrated sulfuric acid. Amazon review: "It eats through everything except plastic and porcelain. When you use this you have to be careful when you pour it down the drain it ate through the metal ring around the drain hole..... Unfortunately it did not unclog my drains, guess I have to call a plumber."

MSDS info: Very hazardous in case of skin contact (corrosive, irritant, permeator), of eye contact (irritant, corrosive), of ingestion, of inhalation. Liquid or spray mist may produce tissue damage particularly on mucous membranes of eyes, mouth and respiratory tract. Skin contact may produce burns. Inhalation of the spray mist may produce severe irritation of respiratory tract, characterized by coughing, choking, or shortness of breath. Severe over-exposure can result in death. Inflammation of the eye is characterized by redness, watering, and itching....

Also, sulfuric acid in contact with a long list of other chemicals is explosive.

"Amazing Liquid Fire" ships in a 1 gallon plastic jug. You can't even ship that via UPS Ground. Above 500ml, you have to use hazardous material freight.

Come on, Amazon, you have databases. You should know which products are hazardous. If the vendor can't give you an MSDS for it, maybe you shouldn't be shipping it.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by ChuckMcM on Monday June 13, 2016 @08:08PM (#11898807)
Looking at the Amazon listings it looks like it is sold by an Amazon vendor. That suggests an interesting weakness where Amazon doesn't enforce shipping rules on its third party sellers. Also per the comments the "product" is $10 at the hardware store and this person is selling it for $40 at Amazon so that is an interesting business.

And like you I was amazed that it was sold with lye. Kind of makes me wonder if this stuff was riding in the cargo hold of some jet I was flying across country. It could easily cause serious problems.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by AJ007 on Monday June 13, 2016 @10:11PM (#11899294)
Amazon is loaded with questionable shit, with little enforcement from what a buyer's standpoint. Besides the counterfeit stuff, there are reviews of items which are clearly dangerous with accompanied photos. The roll over to paid listings is only going to make it worse as the sellers find more loopholes so they can earn even more to cover their cost-of-sale.

Generally a big fan of Amazon but in the past two years I've increasingly spent more times on other ecommerce sites who police their inventory. Hell, try finding something as basic as Egyptian cotton sheets on Amazon now.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by nommm-nommm on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:47PM (#11903832)
Amazon certianly has the power to better enforce what people are selling on their platform and they choose not to. I don't know if it's their business model or they are just dysfunctional. There's been a whole bunch of articles over the past few years about Amazon listing for illegal products. Even if you buy sold and shipped by Amazon you aren't guaranteed to not get a counterfeit because third party sellers are allowed to comingle their products with all other sellers (including Amazon's)
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by nommm-nommm on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @01:49PM (#11903847)
>Also per the comments the "product" is $10 at the hardware store and this person is selling it for $40 at Amazon so that is an interesting business.

This is pretty common. Amazon buyers who have prime almost never comparison shop. That allows rare/niche items to go for significantly more than anywhere else.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by joering2 on Monday June 13, 2016 @09:21PM (#11899115)
> this person is selling it for $40 at Amazon so that is an interesting business.

Shipping usually heavy liquids across US with special hazardous markings and proper handle requires extra payments. If that's interesting business to you then okay...

> It could easily cause serious problems.

It couldn't because FAA strictly forbids mixing of cargo with the one attached to a flying PAX.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by noobermin on Monday June 13, 2016 @09:41PM (#11899184)
I thought the entire issue here is that this cargo was shipped without those precise markings so the nine injured didn't know it required special handling, so that $30 difference did not go to such preparations.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by cwyers on Monday June 13, 2016 @09:39PM (#11899179)
> Shipping usually heavy liquids across US with special hazardous markings and proper handle requires extra payments.

Isn't the whole point of this that they didn't do that?

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by protomyth on Monday June 13, 2016 @10:28PM (#11899363)
I think joering2 is answering the business question, not the specifics of this case.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by Animats on Monday June 13, 2016 @07:42PM (#11898685)
Oh, and Amazon's recommendation engine shows "Frequently bought together - Amazing Liquid Fire and Red Hot Devil Lye." If you mix those two, you are going to have a really bad day.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by djsumdog on Monday June 13, 2016 @07:49PM (#11898720)
And everyone who purchased those two items together also get their very own personalized FBI terrorist watch list.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by maxerickson on Monday June 13, 2016 @09:41PM (#11899185)
Nah, regional drug enforcement. The internet reveals that they are both ingredients used for cooking meth.

And now I wonder how much attention Googling "meth recipe" is worth. This page discusses it from a law enforcement perspective (or so):

http://www.aristatek.com/newsletter/0511November/TechSpeak.a...

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by jrockway on Monday June 13, 2016 @09:49PM (#11899210)
The government pipes a key ingredient for making meth directly into my home: water.

The real casualty of the meth war was Sudafed. It is the only thing that helps my nasal congestion, and I feel like a hardened criminal every time I beg the pharmacist for my 10 day supply. Randall Munroe was right in wishing he had a way to turn meth into cold medicine.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by GFK_of_xmaspast on Monday June 13, 2016 @10:39PM (#11899407)
In my experience the act of purchasing sudafed has simplified over the last few years and all I have to do anymore is show ID (as opposed to the pharmacist filling out a big log book and counter signing).

That aside, Flonase is my drug of choice for that stuff now and in a world without one or the other I know which I'll choose.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by MyDogHasFleas on Monday June 13, 2016 @11:23PM (#11899531)
It's more than just showing an ID. [See here](http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/u...) item 17.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by GFK_of_xmaspast on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @06:48AM (#11901068)
I haven't had to fill out a log book in years and years. Multiple pharmacies, multiple states.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by djsumdog on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @01:13PM (#11910576)
That's one thing I hated about Australia/NZ. Real Pseudoephedrine requires a prescription. I was surprised in Singapore when I could buy it with just showing my ID like in the US.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by Animats on Monday June 13, 2016 @09:56PM (#11899247)
Perhaps those products are marketed primarily to meth labs. As drain cleaners, neither pure sulfuric acid nor pure sodium hydroxide is a good choice. There are more effective products that are less hazardous to both humans and plumbing.[1]

[1] http://www.consumerreports.org/content/dam/cro/news_articles...

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by wtbob on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @08:53AM (#11901665)
> Perhaps those products are marketed primarily to meth labs. As drain cleaners, neither pure sulfuric acid nor pure sodium hydroxide is a good choice.

Pure sodium hydroxide is also used in soap-making, which is both fun and legal. I really hope it doesn't become any more difficult than it is to get ahold of it.

I don't think people should do meth, but I do wonder if the total social costs of making it illegal (crime, meth labs near and in residences, incarceration &c.) outweigh the costs of allowing it to be legal.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by maxerickson on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @12:08PM (#11902955)
Is the stuff sold as drain cleaner not suitable for making soap?

My local big box hardware store sells 100% lye drain cleaner for $4 a pound (it's 100% sodium hydroxide as crystals or powder). I haven't tried buying any, but I doubt a couple pounds would be an issue.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by wtbob on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @08:48AM (#11908957)
> Is the stuff sold as drain cleaner not suitable for making soap?

The 100% lye stuff is, but as the former poster indicated it isn't really the most effective drain cleaner — and there have been moves to make it illegal, because of its use in drug production.

> I haven't tried buying any, but I doubt a couple pounds would be an issue.

I have to give my phone number whenever I buy it. Galling: I'm a free citizen of a free republic, and should be able to purchase chemicals without being tracked.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by mmagin on Monday June 13, 2016 @10:33PM (#11899373)
Sodium hydroxide is a lot cheaper than the various premixed stuff. And you can also make soap with it.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by serge2k on Monday June 13, 2016 @07:52PM (#11898732)
Wouldn't you just get a salt and water?
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by Johnny555 on Monday June 13, 2016 @07:53PM (#11898747)
And an energetic exothermic reaction.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by ChuckMcM on Monday June 13, 2016 @08:09PM (#11898814)
What he said, a very energetic exothermic reaction, which if something was trying to contain it, would probably result in rapid unplanned disassembly (RUD).
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by andyjdavis on Monday June 13, 2016 @08:48PM (#11898991)
>rapid unplanned disassembly (RUD)

lol. Awesome acronym for an unpleasant event.

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by serge2k on Monday June 13, 2016 @08:10PM (#11898821)
ah, right.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by throwawaysocks on Monday June 13, 2016 @09:18PM (#11899108)
> Unfortunately it did not unclog my drains, guess I have to call a plumber

wth is in this guy's drains?!

Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by PhasmaFelis on Monday June 13, 2016 @09:53PM (#11899231)
I guess plastic and/or porcelain! Perhaps he's been abusing his garbage disposal? I suppose that won't be a problem anymore...
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by amalag on Monday June 13, 2016 @10:15PM (#11899305)
9 Employees injured, who covers their health costs? Low fine for 9 injuries.
Re:FAA Slaps Amazon with $350k Penalty for Shipping Violation by throwawaysocks on Monday June 13, 2016 @10:39PM (#11899403)
Often the fine just makes it very easy to establish guilt, and victims are left to fend for themselves in the court system. It might not even be possible for the FAA to pass money from fines along to the victims.