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Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by daveguy on Friday June 10, 2016 @02:40PM (#11878826)
He brings up the fact that Ubuntu doesn't enable the firewall by default. This is just a poor decision on the part of the Ubuntu maintainers. Sure it doesn't have any ports open by default, but installing a poorly configured package (that does leave a port open) means a potential security hole that could easily be prevented. Incoming firewall should be the rule, not the exception.
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by GauntletWizard on Friday June 10, 2016 @06:57PM (#11880795)
So, what you've done is add a new, non-obvious step to every installation, that will probably get worked around by the package maintainers very shortly after (they'll add a step to the installer to add a firewall rule). Your suggestion is pure human churn, and I seriously doubt that it will make it any more likely that admins will pay attention)
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by daveguy on Friday June 10, 2016 @07:45PM (#11881083)
1) it is an obvious step for system administrators and package managers too.

2) red hat and all the other Linux systems don't seem to have a problem with this simple additional step. Ubuntu even built a wrapper to make it easy to configure iptables firewalls (ufw) -- but it isn't enabled by default.

3) Better that maintainers are adding the additional step (that will remain correct) than have each administrator do it (unless needed). That requires maintainers to at least give a passing consideration to security. Without it you set it up and yay it works! No thinking required! No thinking that you may have just left a system wide open to an untested system. I would much prefer an extra step to default insecurity.

Even Microsoft gets the default firewall thing.

Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by slavik81 on Friday June 10, 2016 @08:26PM (#11881261)
I don't think a firewall has ever protected me from anything. It's only ever caused confusing error messages, usually without actually even indicating that the firewall's the problem.

That's not something I'd want to see in 'Linux for human beings'. If my mother is going to use it on her desktop, things should just work.

Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by daveguy on Friday June 10, 2016 @09:00PM (#11881392)
Windows has a firewall by default. The outgoing rule is open the incoming is closed/established. That is the same default firewall config for most Linux distros. This is also probably the default for OSX -- does your mom have trouble with her current system? Because it probably has a firewall configured.

Ubuntu is one of the very few modern operating systems (distributions) that contains this easy to fix security flaw.

Also, you probably wouldn't know if a firewall protected you unless you have a habit of poring over network logs.

Your wifi router definitely has this default configuration which certainly does protect you on a regular basis.

Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by JupiterMoon on Friday June 10, 2016 @09:25PM (#11881498)
Actually OSX didn't enable it by default last time I checked. And the last windows machine I touched had about 300 exceptions to the default deny incoming rule -- that the user had not opened themselves. Ubuntu would need some kind of phone-os like permission system for default deny to be both secure and be grandma friendly.
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by daveguy on Friday June 10, 2016 @11:13PM (#11881851)
You're right. OSX firewall is off by default -- also a poor decision.

The outgoing exceptions on Windows probably because a Windows machine default deny for both incoming and outgoing which does require exceptions. Windows doesn't phone home for additional exceptions -- it asks you.

The default on Ubuntu should be like all other linux distros where where all unsolicited incoming connections are blocked. Related incoming connections are allowed and outgoing connections are allowed.

This would not require any difficult configuration on the part of the average home user.

It seems to me that most people who are blindly defending Ubuntu's current setup do not understand how networking and firewalls work and the better options. That or they do not understand how wide open the Ubuntu defaults are.

There is certainly a more secure easy to use option that Ubuntu is ignoring, but which all of the other linux distros use by default.

Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by slavik81 on Friday June 10, 2016 @11:42PM (#11881934)
> That or they do not understand how wide open the Ubuntu defaults are.

Fair enough. I'd love to learn. What threats does the firewall even defend against?

> The default on Ubuntu should be like all other linux distros where where all unsolicited incoming connections are blocked.

I don't understand why I should care. Evil hackers can send all they want, but the only things listening on my end should be those that I explicitly installed or enabled. The firewall seems redundant as the set of running applications and my set of firewall exceptions should match exactly.

Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by JupiterMoon on Sunday June 12, 2016 @06:51AM (#11887539)
> Fair enough. I'd love to learn. What threats does the firewall even defend against?

Many Debian/Ubuntu packages have a dependency on postfix. Even some trivial ones. Installing these packages installs postfix (which at least asks you to configure it during install). Having a firewall active means that your grandmother won't have services you didn't realise she had running listening.

Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by spydum on Saturday June 11, 2016 @12:11AM (#11882012)
Firewall is a component to a layered defense. One of the points about Ubuntu was starting the service immediately after install, was it not?
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by JupiterMoon on Sunday June 12, 2016 @07:04AM (#11887563)
I fear that if Ubuntu enabled firewall with default deny on incoming packages by default packages would start adding the allow rules in their install scripts..
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by JdeBP on Saturday June 11, 2016 @09:32AM (#11883384)
I am reminded of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11667485 at this point.
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by slavik81 on Saturday June 11, 2016 @12:20PM (#11884007)
I picked my own mother for a reason. She's a very successful geological engineer and quite an intelligent woman. However, she is not a sysadmin and is definitely not going to know to configure iptables if Ubuntu software doesn't work.
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by dijit on Friday June 10, 2016 @03:30PM (#11879276)
Coupled with the aptitude methodology of package management which enables/runs services on installation.
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by StevePerkins on Friday June 10, 2016 @08:28PM (#11881277)
Is that true even for the "Server" distribution, or just the desktop spins?
Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by daveguy on Friday June 10, 2016 @09:06PM (#11881412)
This Ubuntu Server Guide would indicate that the default firewall configuration is "off" for Ubuntu Server distributions as well:

https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/firewall.html

Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by jldugger on Friday June 10, 2016 @05:51PM (#11880378)
> installing a poorly configured package (that does leave a port open) means a potential security hole that could easily be prevented.

Please share with us what magic you have that prevents human error locally, but is defeated by human error in packaging.

Re:What I learned while securing Ubuntu (2015) by daveguy on Friday June 10, 2016 @07:39PM (#11881053)
Well, I wouldn't call a firewall magic, but that's what it does. If a package is setup so the software listens to 0.0.0.0 (all networks) on a particular port then the firewall will prevent incoming attacks. Opening the firewall port is an extra step that requires two misconfigurations rather than one. Look up fail-safe for more reading.