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Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by roymurdock on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @09:19AM (#11862063)
The article addresses both your point and the GP's point directly:

Economists have long said that the rational thing to do is to buy an annuity. At retirement age, you could pay an insurance company $100,000 in return for some $5,000-6,000 a year in guaranteed payments until you die. But most people don’t do that. For decades, economists have been trying to figure out why.

James Poterba, an economics professor at MIT who has extensively studied American retirement, says it’s still a mystery why annuities are so unpopular. A number of theories have been advanced — people might like to leave some money for their children, or they might worry about medical expenses late in life. Poterba and his colleagues have also pointed out that Social Security is already like an annuity, promising constant payments for life.

But there’s also some evidence that people just irrationally dislike annuities. As behavioral economist Richard Thaler wrote in the New York Times: “Rather than viewing an annuity as providing insurance in the event that one lives past 85 or 90, most people seem to consider buying an annuity as a gamble, in which one has to live a certain number of years just to break even.”

Here is where tontines come in. If people irrationally fear annuities because they seem like a gamble on one's own life, history suggests that they irrationally loved tontines because they see tontines as a gamble on other people's lives.

I agree that financial literacy in the US is low, and the basic accounting/finance classes should be required at the high school level, but this article is good and draws upon a decent amount of actual economic literature. I recommend reading it to the end.

Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by spacehome on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @12:57PM (#11863685)
I really wanted to like annuities. It's a great concept, but when I looked into annuities, they were all pretty bad deals as compared to just investing in the market yourself. It is true that you offload some risk, but the price you pay for lowering your risk is just too high.
Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by jessriedel on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @03:23PM (#11864866)
Can you quantify that at all? What's "too high"?
Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by iumtuip2001 on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @11:50AM (#11863035)
I'd like to put forward another possible reason why someone might opt to not get an annuity...

If you are financially savvy, or can pay someone else to be, does it not make more sense to invest your money yourself? There are a number of "too big to fail" companies, like GM, and Wells Fargo, that offer dividends. If you composed a portfolio of high dividend, stable, stocks... Could you theoretically have a "guaranteed" monthly income AND the ability to liquidate, in the event of an emergency?

Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by mywittyname on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @12:49PM (#11863598)
Perhaps the guaranteed payments of an annuity exceed the guaranteed returns of an investment portfolio. The companies managing the annuities have the capital to invest in businesses and ventures that a typical person can't. Such as financing, large real estate developments, or investments in startups, small businesses, or private equity.

With a stock portfolio, the only guarantee cash-flow is dividends since capital appreciation varies a lot year-to-year. Dividends are usually in the 2-3% range. A large, diversified real-estate portfolio might see 8-15% yearly returns in cash, which can be distributed, saved, or reinvested as needed.

Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by greeneggs on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @12:53PM (#11863638)
> If you composed a portfolio of high dividend, stable, stocks... Could you theoretically have a "guaranteed" monthly income AND the ability to liquidate, in the event of an emergency?

No. You can buy an annuity, or US Treasury bonds, but guaranteed high returns don't exist, and adding in a liquidity requirement doesn't help.

Note that GM declared bankruptcy in 2009. Even if it is still "too big to fail," that doesn't mean investors can't lose all their money.

Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by iumtuip2001 on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @06:08PM (#11866092)
I never claimed guaranteed high returns. An annuity doesn't guarantee you "high" monthly income. It guarantees you AN monthly income.

My comment was to address the question regarding why more people don't use annuities, and I'm not sure your response counters that.

Regarding GM, yes, I'm aware they went bankrupt. But correct me if I'm wrong - Investors didn't lose their shares? The government bailed them out, and they're operational today. That's what I mean by "too big to fail".

Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by greeneggs on Monday June 13, 2016 @10:52AM (#11894307)
> In the case of GM, investors who held shares of the company before its reorganization saw their equity holdings cancelled in March, 2011. Per the company's reorganization plan, they did not receive any shares of the "new" GM.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/02/23/what-a-corp...

Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by jessriedel on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @03:19PM (#11864831)
No, that doesn't insure against old age. Consider this method of getting a guaranteed income: take your pot of money M and divide it by N, where N is the maximum number of years you could expect to live (if, say, you lived to 121). Then you can get a guaranteed income of M/N per year. But this is silly, because most of the time you die much earlier, and the money goes to waste.

The whole point is to transfer money from worlds where you die early to worlds where you die late. An annuity does this by pooling your money with many people living to different ages. For a large pool and accurate actuarial tables, the number of people who die every year can be predicted, so one can determine an amount of money to pay out each year such that each surviving person gets the same amount each year, with long-surviving people getting more total money (as desired).

Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by ianai on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @10:09AM (#11862350)
I'd bet it's mostly to do with fear of sudden, large expenses. Part of the reason to save up a large stock of funds is to be able to pay off big, unexpected bills. To shell out a large sum for an annuity also requires them to shell out (some?) of that ability. The elderly probably couple that with a disdain for taking on financial debt.
Re:Tontines may make sense despite their history of disrepute by jessriedel on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @09:48AM (#11862229)
I actually did read this article to the end back when it was written last year, but I wrote the above comment based on a faulty memory. Thank you for the correction. The problem with the article is less than I claimed, but it is still written in a confusing and sensational way.