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Re:Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know by cpach on Sunday May 29, 2016 @06:02AM (#11795778)
Moxie Marlinspike recently published an interesting essay that adressed this question.

”XMPP is an example of a federated protocol that advertises itself as a ’living standard.’ Despite its capacity for protocol ’extensions,’ however, it's undeniable that XMPP still largely resembles a synchronous protocol with limited support for rich media, which can't realistically be deployed on mobile devices. If XMPP is so extensible, why haven't those extensions quickly brought it up to speed with the modern world?

Like any federated protocol, extensions don't mean much unless everyone applies them, and that's an almost impossible task in a truly federated landscape. What we have instead is a complicated morass of XEPs that aren't consistently applied anywhere. The implications of that are severe, because someone's choice to use an XMPP client or server that doesn't support video or some other arbitrary feature doesn't only effect them, it effects everyone who tries to communicate with them. It creates a climate of uncertainty, never knowing whether things will work or not. In the consumer space, fractured client support is often worse than no client support at all, because consistency is incredibly important for creating a compelling user experience.”

https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/

Re:Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know by Perceptes on Sunday May 29, 2016 @06:16AM (#11795809)
I am hoping the Matrix team will write a blog post about their viewpoint on Moxie's post, given that they are out to do something Moxie doesn't believe can succeed. I'm also curious to hear how they respond to the specific section you quoted: how is Matrix going to avoid the same fate XMPP suffered here?
Re:Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know by Arathorn on Sunday May 29, 2016 @06:53AM (#11795895)
We haven't had a chance to write a formal response yet; too busy getting Matrix out of beta. I responded at the time at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11669681 though.

A quick specific answer w.r.t. XMPP is that Matrix aims for a very coarser granularity of modularity, published as a single consistent spec, and mandates feature profiles to determine which modules should get used where. In other words, there is only one official set of endpoints specified for Matrix for a given use case (e.g. mobile IM+VoIP). So it ends up being under tighter control (whilst still very much taking proposals and PRs from the overall community), and is easier to swap out the higher level layers to rapidly evolve functionality - rather than suffering the proliferation of XEPs which is XMPP's double-edged sword.

This is always going to move slower than a centralised service, but we think the freedom of being able to select your clients/servers/services is well worth that cost in agility - and does not have to compromise privacy if engineered correctly.

Re:Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know by Perceptes on Sunday May 29, 2016 @07:26AM (#11795968)
Thanks for the response and the link to the previous response. I'd missed that! Both are great answers. :}
Re:Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know by drdaeman on Sunday May 29, 2016 @06:34AM (#11795851)
> Like any federated protocol, extensions don't mean much unless everyone applies them, and that's an almost impossible task in a truly federated landscape. What we have instead is a complicated morass of XEPs that aren't consistently applied anywhere.

The problem is, without actual numbers - how many clients support what - this statement is just a personal opinion, not a rule.

We can say exactly the same about the web. It's also federated, it also has fractured client support (although, sadly, core engines can be counted on fingers) and it's also full of extensions. While I won't praise the web, and I'll surely admit that the trends for siloing are strong (for many, a single big social network site of their choice is the "web"), it still manages to provide somehow decent user experience.

Re:Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know by choosername on Sunday May 29, 2016 @08:09AM (#11796064)
There is the w3 and other standards comitties joined by industrie leaders and a lot of experts and public eyeballs. Chat hardly compares. Perhaps the W3 should concern itself with chat. The IETF released SIP. The w3c offers IRC channels.

A broken browser is a pain, new standars improve the user experience (e.g. html video). For the public user there is no discernable difference in any basic chat's protocol and implemetation.

Re:Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know by andrey_utkin on Sunday May 29, 2016 @09:27AM (#11796284)
IETF has also standartized XMPP.